and<00:00:00.399> also<00:00:00.719> this<00:00:00.960> story<00:00:01.280> this<00:00:01.439> one<00:00:02.240> does<00:00:02.560> divide

and also this story this one does divide

and also this story this one does divide the<00:00:03.360> room<00:00:03.600> somewhat<00:00:04.000> a<00:00:04.160> one-off<00:00:04.720> wealth<00:00:05.040> tax

the room somewhat a one-off wealth tax

the room somewhat a one-off wealth tax will<00:00:05.920> be<00:00:06.080> the<00:00:06.240> best<00:00:06.560> way<00:00:06.799> to<00:00:06.960> patch<00:00:07.279> up

will be the best way to patch up

will be the best way to patch up uk<00:00:07.919> public<00:00:08.320> finances<00:00:08.960> battered<00:00:09.679> by<00:00:09.840> the

uk public finances battered by the

uk public finances battered by the coronavirus<00:00:10.719> crisis<00:00:11.120> this<00:00:11.280> is<00:00:11.360> according<00:00:11.759> to

coronavirus crisis this is according to

coronavirus crisis this is according to the<00:00:12.000> wealth

the wealth

the wealth tax<00:00:12.880> commission<00:00:13.840> they<00:00:14.000> said<00:00:14.240> the<00:00:14.320> government

tax commission they said the government

tax commission they said the government should<00:00:14.799> look<00:00:15.040> at<00:00:15.200> attacks<00:00:15.679> on<00:00:15.920> millionaire

should look at attacks on millionaire

should look at attacks on millionaire couples

couples

couples rather<00:00:17.760> than<00:00:18.000> increasing<00:00:18.560> income<00:00:18.880> tax<00:00:19.199> or<00:00:19.359> vat

rather than increasing income tax or vat

rather than increasing income tax or vat taxing<00:00:20.480> those<00:00:20.720> households

taxing those households

taxing those households an<00:00:21.760> extra<00:00:22.160> one<00:00:22.480> percent<00:00:23.119> above<00:00:23.680> one<00:00:23.920> million

an extra one percent above one million

an extra one percent above one million pound<00:00:24.800> threat<00:00:25.119> of<00:00:25.279> one<00:00:25.439> million<00:00:25.760> pound

pound threat of one million pound

pound threat of one million pound threshold

threshold

threshold would<00:00:27.039> raise<00:00:27.960> 260<00:00:29.039> billion<00:00:29.599> pounds

would raise 260 billion pounds

would raise 260 billion pounds over<00:00:30.560> five<00:00:30.880> years<00:00:31.679> uh<00:00:31.840> let's<00:00:32.079> speak<00:00:32.239> to<00:00:32.399> gary

over five years uh let's speak to gary

over five years uh let's speak to gary stevenson

stevenson

stevenson um<00:00:34.079> himself<00:00:34.480> a<00:00:34.559> millionaire<00:00:35.040> former<00:00:35.360> trader

um himself a millionaire former trader

um himself a millionaire former trader wants<00:00:36.320> the<00:00:36.480> wealthy<00:00:37.040> to<00:00:37.280> pay

wants the wealthy to pay

wants the wealthy to pay for<00:00:38.160> covid<00:00:38.559> now<00:00:38.879> an<00:00:39.520> inequality<00:00:40.640> uh<00:00:40.879> is<00:00:41.200> that

for covid now an inequality uh is that

for covid now an inequality uh is that right<00:00:41.440> an<00:00:41.600> inequality<00:00:42.239> economist

right an inequality economist

right an inequality economist yes<00:00:43.840> that's<00:00:44.000> right<00:00:44.239> yeah<00:00:44.480> afternoon<00:00:45.039> gary<00:00:45.360> the

yes that's right yeah afternoon gary the

yes that's right yeah afternoon gary the only<00:00:45.600> reason<00:00:46.399> i've

only reason i've

only reason i've the<00:00:47.120> only<00:00:47.200> reason<00:00:47.520> i<00:00:47.600> paused<00:00:47.920> at<00:00:48.000> that<00:00:48.079> i

the only reason i paused at that i

the only reason i paused at that i thought<00:00:48.320> you<00:00:48.399> were<00:00:48.640> championing<00:00:49.280> inequality

thought you were championing inequality

thought you were championing inequality for<00:00:50.000> a<00:00:50.079> second

for a second

for a second that<00:00:50.559> would<00:00:50.640> be<00:00:50.719> a<00:00:50.800> curious<00:00:51.199> job<00:00:51.440> to<00:00:51.600> have

that would be a curious job to have

that would be a curious job to have wouldn't<00:00:51.920> it<00:00:52.320> um<00:00:52.640> but<00:00:52.879> you're<00:00:53.280> an<00:00:53.360> economist

wouldn't it um but you're an economist

wouldn't it um but you're an economist looking<00:00:54.079> at

looking at

looking at issues<00:00:54.960> of<00:00:55.120> inequality<00:00:55.840> and<00:00:56.160> i<00:00:56.320> said<00:00:56.559> at<00:00:56.640> the

issues of inequality and i said at the

issues of inequality and i said at the beginning<00:00:57.120> of<00:00:57.199> this<00:00:57.360> gary<00:00:57.680> or<00:00:57.760> just<00:00:57.920> before

beginning of this gary or just before

beginning of this gary or just before the<00:00:58.399> news<00:00:58.719> this<00:00:58.960> one<00:00:59.199> divides<00:00:59.680> me<00:00:59.920> somewhat

the news this one divides me somewhat

the news this one divides me somewhat and<00:01:00.480> i'm<00:01:00.559> sure

and i'm sure

and i'm sure lots<00:01:01.120> of<00:01:01.280> people<00:01:01.520> you<00:01:01.680> know<00:01:01.840> feel<00:01:02.079> the<00:01:02.239> same

lots of people you know feel the same

lots of people you know feel the same because<00:01:03.199> i<00:01:03.440> can<00:01:03.600> see<00:01:03.840> how<00:01:04.000> persuasive

because i can see how persuasive

because i can see how persuasive persuasive<00:01:05.360> and<00:01:05.439> seductive<00:01:05.920> the<00:01:06.080> argument<00:01:06.479> is

persuasive and seductive the argument is

persuasive and seductive the argument is you<00:01:06.799> know<00:01:06.880> if<00:01:06.960> somebody<00:01:07.200> is<00:01:07.280> worth<00:01:07.520> a<00:01:07.600> few<00:01:07.840> quid

you know if somebody is worth a few quid

you know if somebody is worth a few quid it's<00:01:08.799> a<00:01:08.960> one-off<00:01:09.439> tax<00:01:09.840> then<00:01:10.400> you<00:01:10.479> know<00:01:10.799> why<00:01:11.119> not

it's a one-off tax then you know why not

it's a one-off tax then you know why not it's<00:01:11.680> not<00:01:11.840> going<00:01:11.920> to<00:01:12.000> be<00:01:12.159> forever

it's not going to be forever

it's not going to be forever you<00:01:12.799> could<00:01:12.960> argue<00:01:13.200> it's<00:01:13.360> in<00:01:13.439> their<00:01:13.680> interest

you could argue it's in their interest

you could argue it's in their interest as<00:01:14.240> well<00:01:14.479> long<00:01:14.640> term<00:01:15.360> uh<00:01:15.439> but<00:01:15.600> there's<00:01:15.840> another

as well long term uh but there's another

as well long term uh but there's another part<00:01:16.240> of<00:01:16.320> it<00:01:16.400> i<00:01:16.479> think<00:01:16.640> well<00:01:16.720> if<00:01:16.880> you<00:01:16.960> always<00:01:17.200> go

part of it i think well if you always go

part of it i think well if you always go cap<00:01:17.680> in<00:01:17.759> hand<00:01:18.000> to<00:01:18.159> rich<00:01:18.400> people

cap in hand to rich people

cap in hand to rich people you<00:01:19.040> could<00:01:19.200> play<00:01:19.439> that<00:01:19.600> game<00:01:19.920> every<00:01:20.240> day<00:01:20.400> of

you could play that game every day of

you could play that game every day of the<00:01:20.640> week<00:01:20.880> that<00:01:21.040> there's<00:01:21.360> any<00:01:21.600> kind<00:01:21.840> of<00:01:21.920> crisis

the week that there's any kind of crisis

the week that there's any kind of crisis yeah<00:01:24.240> that's<00:01:24.479> the<00:01:24.640> concern<00:01:25.040> it's<00:01:25.439> addressed

yeah that's the concern it's addressed

yeah that's the concern it's addressed in<00:01:25.840> the<00:01:25.920> report<00:01:26.320> a<00:01:26.400> lot<00:01:26.560> of<00:01:26.640> the<00:01:26.799> uh

in the report a lot of the uh

in the report a lot of the uh sir<00:01:27.759> some<00:01:27.920> economists<00:01:28.400> at<00:01:28.560> the<00:01:28.640> london<00:01:28.880> school

sir some economists at the london school

sir some economists at the london school of<00:01:29.119> economics<00:01:29.520> and<00:01:29.600> a<00:01:29.680> group<00:01:29.920> of<00:01:30.159> lawyers<00:01:30.479> and

of economics and a group of lawyers and

of economics and a group of lawyers and tax<00:01:30.880> accounts<00:01:31.200> have<00:01:31.280> looked<00:01:31.520> at<00:01:31.600> this

tax accounts have looked at this

tax accounts have looked at this um<00:01:32.799> yeah<00:01:33.360> there<00:01:33.520> is<00:01:33.680> um<00:01:34.000> they've<00:01:34.240> addressed

um yeah there is um they've addressed

um yeah there is um they've addressed that<00:01:34.640> in<00:01:34.720> the<00:01:34.799> report

that in the report

that in the report i<00:01:35.520> think<00:01:35.840> the<00:01:35.920> thing<00:01:36.159> we<00:01:36.240> need<00:01:36.400> to<00:01:36.479> consider

i think the thing we need to consider

i think the thing we need to consider here<00:01:36.960> is<00:01:37.360> there's<00:01:37.600> a<00:01:37.759> massive<00:01:38.159> increase<00:01:38.479> as

here is there's a massive increase as

here is there's a massive increase as everybody<00:01:39.040> knows<00:01:39.360> in<00:01:39.439> government<00:01:39.759> that<00:01:40.079> due

everybody knows in government that due

everybody knows in government that due to<00:01:40.400> the<00:01:40.479> global<00:01:40.799> crisis

to the global crisis

to the global crisis it's<00:01:41.680> coming<00:01:41.920> up<00:01:42.000> to<00:01:42.159> half<00:01:42.399> a<00:01:42.479> trillion<00:01:42.880> pounds

it's coming up to half a trillion pounds

it's coming up to half a trillion pounds just<00:01:43.520> from<00:01:43.759> this<00:01:43.920> year

just from this year

just from this year um<00:01:45.600> something<00:01:45.920> has<00:01:46.079> to<00:01:46.159> be<00:01:46.240> done<00:01:46.399> about<00:01:46.640> that

um something has to be done about that

um something has to be done about that it<00:01:46.960> will<00:01:47.119> have<00:01:47.280> to<00:01:47.360> be<00:01:47.520> addressed

it will have to be addressed

it will have to be addressed um<00:01:48.720> at<00:01:48.799> the<00:01:48.960> moment<00:01:49.520> the<00:01:49.759> very<00:01:50.000> richest<00:01:50.399> in<00:01:50.560> our

um at the moment the very richest in our

um at the moment the very richest in our society<00:01:51.119> often<00:01:51.439> pay

society often pay

society often pay the<00:01:51.920> lowest<00:01:52.399> rates<00:01:52.640> of<00:01:52.720> tax<00:01:53.280> you<00:01:53.360> know<00:01:53.520> it's

the lowest rates of tax you know it's

the lowest rates of tax you know it's famous<00:01:54.240> some<00:01:54.399> billionaires<00:01:54.880> pay<00:01:55.040> less<00:01:55.200> than

famous some billionaires pay less than

famous some billionaires pay less than their<00:01:55.439> cleaners

their cleaners

their cleaners um<00:01:56.640> as<00:01:56.880> a<00:01:56.960> rate<00:01:57.280> someone's<00:01:57.520> gonna<00:01:58.320> yes<00:01:58.640> as<00:01:58.799> a

um as a rate someone's gonna yes as a

um as a rate someone's gonna yes as a rate<00:01:59.040> yeah<00:01:59.360> someone's<00:01:59.840> uh

rate yeah someone's uh

rate yeah someone's uh gonna<00:02:00.479> have<00:02:00.560> to<00:02:00.640> deal<00:02:00.799> with<00:02:00.960> this<00:02:01.280> um<00:02:02.320> and<00:02:02.399> if

gonna have to deal with this um and if

gonna have to deal with this um and if it's<00:02:02.799> not<00:02:02.960> the

it's not the

it's not the very<00:02:03.520> richest<00:02:03.920> who<00:02:04.079> often<00:02:04.320> pay<00:02:04.560> very<00:02:04.719> little

very richest who often pay very little

very richest who often pay very little then<00:02:05.200> it<00:02:05.360> might<00:02:05.520> have<00:02:05.680> to<00:02:05.759> be

then it might have to be

then it might have to be hard-working<00:02:07.119> people<00:02:07.360> like<00:02:07.520> you<00:02:07.600> and<00:02:07.759> i<00:02:07.840> again

hard-working people like you and i again

hard-working people like you and i again i<00:02:09.119> mean<00:02:09.280> in<00:02:09.440> terms<00:02:09.840> of

i mean in terms of

i mean in terms of tax<00:02:11.360> thresholds<00:02:11.920> just<00:02:12.239> i<00:02:12.319> mean<00:02:12.480> you<00:02:12.560> will<00:02:12.720> know

tax thresholds just i mean you will know

tax thresholds just i mean you will know a<00:02:12.959> bit<00:02:13.120> about<00:02:13.360> this<00:02:13.599> gary<00:02:13.920> you've

a bit about this gary you've

a bit about this gary you've you<00:02:14.560> did<00:02:14.720> well<00:02:14.959> in<00:02:15.040> the<00:02:15.200> city<00:02:16.080> and<00:02:16.480> you've

you did well in the city and you've

you did well in the city and you've earned<00:02:16.959> a<00:02:17.040> few<00:02:17.280> quid<00:02:17.520> and<00:02:17.599> that's<00:02:17.840> fabulous

earned a few quid and that's fabulous

earned a few quid and that's fabulous what<00:02:19.040> happens<00:02:19.520> in<00:02:19.680> terms<00:02:19.920> of<00:02:20.080> taxation<00:02:21.280> once

what happens in terms of taxation once

what happens in terms of taxation once you

you

you what<00:02:22.480> is<00:02:22.640> the<00:02:22.720> top<00:02:22.959> rate<00:02:23.200> of<00:02:23.280> tax<00:02:23.599> you<00:02:23.760> can<00:02:24.000> pay

what is the top rate of tax you can pay

what is the top rate of tax you can pay at<00:02:24.560> that<00:02:24.800> level

at that level

at that level well<00:02:26.560> i<00:02:26.560> think<00:02:26.720> the<00:02:26.800> top<00:02:27.040> rate<00:02:27.200> of<00:02:27.360> income<00:02:27.599> tax

well i think the top rate of income tax

well i think the top rate of income tax at<00:02:27.920> the<00:02:28.000> moment<00:02:28.239> is<00:02:28.319> 45<00:02:29.200> so<00:02:29.360> that<00:02:29.440> doesn't

at the moment is 45 so that doesn't

at the moment is 45 so that doesn't change<00:02:30.239> between

change between

change between having<00:02:31.360> you<00:02:31.440> know<00:02:31.599> 150<00:02:32.560> 000<00:02:32.800> or<00:02:32.879> 50<00:02:33.280> 000<00:02:33.599> to

having you know 150 000 or 50 000 to

having you know 150 000 or 50 000 to having

having

having two<00:02:35.519> billion<00:02:36.720> no<00:02:36.879> well<00:02:37.120> when<00:02:37.280> i<00:02:37.360> was<00:02:37.519> working

two billion no well when i was working

two billion no well when i was working there<00:02:37.920> was<00:02:38.000> temporarily<00:02:38.480> a<00:02:38.560> fifty<00:02:38.800> percent

there was temporarily a fifty percent

there was temporarily a fifty percent rate<00:02:39.519> tax<00:02:39.840> that's<00:02:40.000> right<00:02:40.239> at<00:02:40.319> the<00:02:40.400> moment<00:02:40.720> the

rate tax that's right at the moment the

rate tax that's right at the moment the uh

uh

uh top<00:02:41.440> rate<00:02:41.599> is<00:02:41.680> back<00:02:41.840> down<00:02:42.000> to<00:02:42.080> forty<00:02:42.319> five

top rate is back down to forty five

top rate is back down to forty five percent<00:02:42.959> so<00:02:43.200> it's<00:02:43.280> still<00:02:43.440> forty<00:02:43.680> five<00:02:43.840> percent

percent so it's still forty five percent

percent so it's still forty five percent there's<00:02:44.239> nothing<00:02:44.480> above<00:02:44.800> that

there's nothing above that

there's nothing above that yeah<00:02:45.920> but<00:02:46.000> what's<00:02:46.239> important<00:02:46.560> to<00:02:46.720> realize<00:02:47.040> is

yeah but what's important to realize is

yeah but what's important to realize is that<00:02:47.440> tax<00:02:47.760> gets<00:02:48.080> charged<00:02:48.400> on<00:02:48.560> worked<00:02:48.959> income

that tax gets charged on worked income

that tax gets charged on worked income but<00:02:49.599> the<00:02:49.680> very<00:02:49.920> richest<00:02:50.319> people<00:02:50.640> they<00:02:50.800> make<00:02:50.959> a

but the very richest people they make a

but the very richest people they make a lot<00:02:51.200> of<00:02:51.280> their<00:02:51.519> income<00:02:51.920> often<00:02:52.400> most<00:02:52.720> of<00:02:52.800> their

lot of their income often most of their

lot of their income often most of their income<00:02:53.280> in<00:02:53.360> the<00:02:53.440> case<00:02:53.680> of<00:02:53.760> the<00:02:53.840> richest

income in the case of the richest

income in the case of the richest in<00:02:54.879> ways<00:02:55.120> that<00:02:55.280> is<00:02:55.440> not<00:02:55.680> through<00:02:55.840> working<00:02:56.319> for

in ways that is not through working for

in ways that is not through working for example<00:02:56.879> trusts<00:02:57.519> inheritances<00:02:58.319> capital

example trusts inheritances capital

example trusts inheritances capital gains

gains

gains and<00:02:59.680> these<00:02:59.920> methods<00:03:00.319> of<00:03:00.400> income<00:03:00.800> are<00:03:00.959> taxed

and these methods of income are taxed

and these methods of income are taxed often<00:03:01.519> a<00:03:01.599> lot<00:03:01.840> less<00:03:02.159> and<00:03:02.239> some<00:03:02.400> of<00:03:02.480> these<00:03:02.640> guys

often a lot less and some of these guys

often a lot less and some of these guys will<00:03:03.040> be<00:03:03.120> paying

will be paying

will be paying less<00:03:03.920> than<00:03:04.080> 20<00:03:04.720> tax<00:03:05.200> and<00:03:05.280> they<00:03:05.440> may<00:03:05.599> even<00:03:05.760> be

less than 20 tax and they may even be

less than 20 tax and they may even be making<00:03:06.400> billions<00:03:06.800> in<00:03:06.959> income

making billions in income

making billions in income yeah<00:03:07.599> so<00:03:07.760> there<00:03:07.840> comes<00:03:08.080> a<00:03:08.159> question<00:03:08.400> where<00:03:08.560> you

yeah so there comes a question where you

yeah so there comes a question where you have<00:03:08.800> to<00:03:08.959> ask<00:03:09.280> why<00:03:09.599> are<00:03:09.760> people<00:03:10.000> who<00:03:10.159> are

have to ask why are people who are

have to ask why are people who are earning

earning

earning 50<00:03:11.280> 60<00:03:11.599> grand<00:03:11.760> a<00:03:11.840> year<00:03:12.000> paying<00:03:12.239> 45<00:03:13.440> when<00:03:13.599> the

50 60 grand a year paying 45 when the

50 60 grand a year paying 45 when the duke<00:03:13.920> of<00:03:14.000> westminster's<00:03:14.480> making<00:03:14.720> nine

duke of westminster's making nine

duke of westminster's making nine billion<00:03:15.200> pounds<00:03:15.519> are<00:03:15.599> not<00:03:15.680> paying<00:03:15.920> anything

billion pounds are not paying anything

billion pounds are not paying anything yeah<00:03:17.280> and<00:03:17.440> in<00:03:17.519> terms<00:03:17.840> of<00:03:17.920> your<00:03:18.080> own<00:03:18.239> situation

yeah and in terms of your own situation

yeah and in terms of your own situation i<00:03:18.800> mean<00:03:19.200> you've<00:03:19.360> done<00:03:19.599> well<00:03:19.760> i<00:03:19.840> don't<00:03:20.080> think

i mean you've done well i don't think

i mean you've done well i don't think you're<00:03:20.400> making<00:03:20.720> nine<00:03:20.959> billion<00:03:21.360> quid<00:03:21.599> gary<00:03:21.920> but

you're making nine billion quid gary but

you're making nine billion quid gary but um<00:03:22.720> no<00:03:23.440> not<00:03:23.680> nonetheless<00:03:24.400> you<00:03:24.560> would<00:03:24.799> be

um no not nonetheless you would be

um no not nonetheless you would be prepared<00:03:25.440> to<00:03:25.599> pay<00:03:25.840> more

prepared to pay more

prepared to pay more i'll<00:03:27.280> tell<00:03:27.440> you<00:03:27.519> what<00:03:27.840> at<00:03:28.000> the<00:03:28.080> moment<00:03:28.400> in<00:03:28.480> this

i'll tell you what at the moment in this

i'll tell you what at the moment in this country<00:03:28.959> we've<00:03:29.120> got<00:03:29.280> a<00:03:29.680> chancellor

country we've got a chancellor

country we've got a chancellor whose<00:03:30.720> father-in-law<00:03:31.360> is<00:03:31.519> a

whose father-in-law is a

whose father-in-law is a multi-billionaire<00:03:32.879> and<00:03:32.959> his<00:03:33.120> wife<00:03:33.440> is

multi-billionaire and his wife is

multi-billionaire and his wife is estimated<00:03:34.319> to<00:03:34.400> worth<00:03:34.640> about<00:03:34.720> half<00:03:34.959> a<00:03:35.040> billion

estimated to worth about half a billion

estimated to worth about half a billion pounds<00:03:36.080> if<00:03:36.239> rishi<00:03:36.560> sunk<00:03:36.879> pays<00:03:37.200> i'll<00:03:37.440> pay

pounds if rishi sunk pays i'll pay

pounds if rishi sunk pays i'll pay but<00:03:39.280> then<00:03:39.440> rishi<00:03:39.760> sooner<00:03:40.080> might<00:03:40.319> say<00:03:40.480> well

but then rishi sooner might say well

but then rishi sooner might say well okay<00:03:41.040> that's<00:03:41.280> all<00:03:41.440> very<00:03:41.680> well<00:03:42.000> but<00:03:42.159> he

okay that's all very well but he

okay that's all very well but he shouldn't<00:03:42.560> be<00:03:42.720> judged<00:03:43.120> on<00:03:43.280> his<00:03:43.519> spouse<00:03:43.920> and

shouldn't be judged on his spouse and

shouldn't be judged on his spouse and her<00:03:44.239> family

her family

her family all<00:03:45.840> right<00:03:45.920> if<00:03:46.159> she's<00:03:46.319> the<00:03:46.400> next<00:03:46.560> wife

all right if she's the next wife

all right if she's the next wife self-made<00:03:47.360> man<00:03:47.599> yeah<00:03:48.560> okay

self-made man yeah okay

self-made man yeah okay if<00:03:49.280> mrs<00:03:49.599> sunak<00:03:50.080> pace<00:03:50.799> pays<00:03:51.120> the<00:03:51.200> big<00:03:51.440> bundle

if mrs sunak pace pays the big bundle

if mrs sunak pace pays the big bundle then<00:03:52.400> then<00:03:52.640> you<00:03:52.799> will<00:03:53.040> as<00:03:53.120> well

then then you will as well

then then you will as well how<00:03:53.680> would<00:03:53.920> you<00:03:54.239> i<00:03:54.319> mean<00:03:54.480> would<00:03:54.720> you<00:03:54.959> just<00:03:55.519> have

how would you i mean would you just have

how would you i mean would you just have a<00:03:55.920> one-off

a one-off

a one-off payment<00:03:57.200> do<00:03:57.280> you<00:03:57.439> think<00:03:57.680> that<00:03:57.840> would<00:03:58.080> work<00:03:58.560> or

payment do you think that would work or

payment do you think that would work or do<00:03:59.040> you<00:03:59.120> think<00:03:59.360> there<00:03:59.519> should<00:03:59.680> be<00:03:59.920> a

do you think there should be a

do you think there should be a um<00:04:01.519> a<00:04:02.159> a<00:04:02.640> kind<00:04:02.799> of<00:04:02.879> an<00:04:03.439> increase

um a a kind of an increase

um a a kind of an increase in<00:04:04.319> the<00:04:04.720> in<00:04:04.879> the<00:04:05.040> basic<00:04:05.519> rates<00:04:05.760> of<00:04:05.920> income<00:04:06.159> tax

in the in the basic rates of income tax

in the in the basic rates of income tax because<00:04:06.640> the<00:04:06.959> the<00:04:07.120> smart<00:04:07.360> money<00:04:07.760> always<00:04:08.080> says

because the the smart money always says

because the the smart money always says gary<00:04:08.560> as<00:04:08.720> you<00:04:08.799> know

gary as you know

gary as you know uh<00:04:09.680> that<00:04:09.840> if<00:04:10.000> you<00:04:10.159> up<00:04:10.400> it<00:04:10.480> to<00:04:10.640> 50<00:04:11.280> and<00:04:11.439> i<00:04:11.680> believe

uh that if you up it to 50 and i believe

uh that if you up it to 50 and i believe there<00:04:12.319> is

there is

there is evidence<00:04:13.439> for<00:04:13.599> this<00:04:13.840> when<00:04:14.239> gordon<00:04:14.560> brown<00:04:14.879> had

evidence for this when gordon brown had

evidence for this when gordon brown had his<00:04:15.200> sort<00:04:15.360> of<00:04:15.439> five<00:04:15.680> minutes<00:04:16.000> at<00:04:16.160> the<00:04:16.239> 50

his sort of five minutes at the 50

his sort of five minutes at the 50 percent<00:04:16.959> rate<00:04:17.120> of<00:04:17.280> it<00:04:17.359> this<00:04:17.519> is<00:04:17.600> just<00:04:17.840> income

percent rate of it this is just income

percent rate of it this is just income tax

tax

tax uh<00:04:19.120> that<00:04:19.280> the<00:04:19.519> intake<00:04:20.000> was<00:04:20.400> actually<00:04:21.040> the

uh that the intake was actually the

uh that the intake was actually the overall<00:04:21.680> tax<00:04:22.000> intake<00:04:22.240> was<00:04:22.400> slightly<00:04:22.720> less

overall tax intake was slightly less

overall tax intake was slightly less because<00:04:23.120> people<00:04:23.360> just<00:04:23.520> found<00:04:23.759> ways<00:04:24.000> to<00:04:24.080> avoid

because people just found ways to avoid

because people just found ways to avoid it

it

it you<00:04:25.680> know<00:04:25.840> i<00:04:26.000> really<00:04:26.160> want<00:04:26.320> to<00:04:27.280> try<00:04:27.440> and<00:04:27.520> be

you know i really want to try and be

you know i really want to try and be clear<00:04:27.840> about<00:04:28.080> drawing<00:04:28.320> the<00:04:28.400> lion<00:04:28.639> here

clear about drawing the lion here

clear about drawing the lion here there's<00:04:29.520> a<00:04:29.680> difference<00:04:30.000> here<00:04:30.160> between<00:04:30.639> what

there's a difference here between what

there's a difference here between what these<00:04:31.040> guys<00:04:31.199> are<00:04:31.280> doing<00:04:31.520> in<00:04:31.600> this<00:04:31.759> report<00:04:32.080> is

these guys are doing in this report is

these guys are doing in this report is they're<00:04:32.320> talking<00:04:32.560> about<00:04:32.720> taxing<00:04:33.120> wealth

they're talking about taxing wealth

they're talking about taxing wealth so<00:04:33.919> it's<00:04:34.080> maybe<00:04:34.400> families<00:04:34.880> that<00:04:35.040> have<00:04:35.840> they

so it's maybe families that have they

so it's maybe families that have they might<00:04:36.160> have<00:04:36.240> accumulated<00:04:36.720> wealth<00:04:36.960> over

might have accumulated wealth over

might have accumulated wealth over possibly<00:04:37.600> centuries<00:04:38.000> you<00:04:38.080> know<00:04:38.320> 50<00:04:38.560> million

possibly centuries you know 50 million

possibly centuries you know 50 million 100<00:04:39.199> million<00:04:39.520> pounds

100 million pounds

100 million pounds true<00:04:40.880> it's<00:04:41.040> about<00:04:41.360> taxing<00:04:42.000> families<00:04:42.320> that<00:04:42.479> are

true it's about taxing families that are

true it's about taxing families that are accumulating<00:04:43.040> huge<00:04:43.280> amounts<00:04:43.600> of<00:04:43.680> wealth<00:04:43.919> and

accumulating huge amounts of wealth and

accumulating huge amounts of wealth and their<00:04:44.080> wealth<00:04:44.320> is<00:04:44.400> just<00:04:44.560> getting<00:04:44.720> bigger<00:04:45.040> and

their wealth is just getting bigger and

their wealth is just getting bigger and bigger

bigger

bigger they<00:04:45.680> often<00:04:45.919> don't<00:04:46.080> pay<00:04:46.320> income<00:04:46.560> tax<00:04:46.800> because

they often don't pay income tax because

they often don't pay income tax because they<00:04:47.199> don't<00:04:47.360> get<00:04:47.440> their<00:04:47.680> income<00:04:47.919> through

they don't get their income through

they don't get their income through working<00:04:48.479> like

working like

working like you<00:04:49.040> do<00:04:49.280> or<00:04:49.360> like<00:04:49.600> i<00:04:49.759> did<00:04:49.840> when<00:04:50.000> i<00:04:50.080> was<00:04:50.240> working

you do or like i did when i was working

you do or like i did when i was working so<00:04:51.520> it's<00:04:51.759> we're<00:04:51.919> not<00:04:52.080> talking<00:04:52.400> about<00:04:52.560> taxing

so it's we're not talking about taxing

so it's we're not talking about taxing lawyers<00:04:53.280> and<00:04:53.360> doctors<00:04:53.680> here

lawyers and doctors here

lawyers and doctors here we're<00:04:54.240> talking<00:04:54.560> about<00:04:54.800> taxing<00:04:55.280> extremely

we're talking about taxing extremely

we're talking about taxing extremely wealthy<00:04:56.240> families<00:04:56.639> who<00:04:56.720> are<00:04:56.880> accumulating

wealthy families who are accumulating

wealthy families who are accumulating wealth<00:04:57.600> over<00:04:57.840> generations<00:04:58.400> and<00:04:58.639> often

wealth over generations and often

wealth over generations and often don't<00:04:59.600> get<00:04:59.759> their<00:04:59.919> income<00:05:00.160> through<00:05:00.400> work<00:05:00.639> so

don't get their income through work so

don't get their income through work so it's<00:05:01.199> not<00:05:01.360> really<00:05:01.600> about<00:05:01.759> what<00:05:02.000> level<00:05:02.240> of

it's not really about what level of

it's not really about what level of income<00:05:02.639> tax<00:05:02.960> it's<00:05:03.120> about

income tax it's about

income tax it's about do<00:05:03.759> we<00:05:04.000> get<00:05:04.240> the<00:05:04.400> super<00:05:04.720> super<00:05:04.960> rich<00:05:05.199> to<00:05:05.280> pay<00:05:05.520> at

do we get the super super rich to pay at

do we get the super super rich to pay at all<00:05:06.000> yeah<00:05:06.320> because<00:05:06.560> often

all yeah because often

all yeah because often right<00:05:07.199> now<00:05:07.440> they're<00:05:07.600> not<00:05:07.759> paying<00:05:08.000> all<00:05:08.240> yeah<00:05:08.400> so

right now they're not paying all yeah so

right now they're not paying all yeah so it's<00:05:08.720> a<00:05:08.800> kind<00:05:08.880> of<00:05:08.960> misnomer<00:05:09.440> really<00:05:09.680> the<00:05:09.840> idea

it's a kind of misnomer really the idea

it's a kind of misnomer really the idea that

that

that we<00:05:10.560> talk<00:05:10.720> about<00:05:10.960> income<00:05:11.199> tax<00:05:11.440> and<00:05:11.520> we<00:05:11.680> kind<00:05:11.840> of

we talk about income tax and we kind of

we talk about income tax and we kind of obsess<00:05:12.320> on<00:05:12.479> that<00:05:12.639> but<00:05:12.800> actually

obsess on that but actually

obsess on that but actually the<00:05:13.840> real<00:05:14.400> big<00:05:14.800> bunch<00:05:15.280> comes<00:05:15.520> from<00:05:15.759> elsewhere

the real big bunch comes from elsewhere

the real big bunch comes from elsewhere it<00:05:16.479> comes<00:05:16.720> from<00:05:16.880> those<00:05:17.199> funds

it comes from those funds

it comes from those funds those<00:05:18.400> pots<00:05:18.800> those<00:05:19.039> investments<00:05:19.600> it's<00:05:19.840> those

those pots those investments it's those

those pots those investments it's those kind<00:05:20.160> of<00:05:20.320> areas<00:05:20.720> yeah<00:05:21.039> it's<00:05:21.199> a<00:05:21.280> choice<00:05:21.600> in<00:05:21.680> a

kind of areas yeah it's a choice in a

kind of areas yeah it's a choice in a way<00:05:21.919> because<00:05:22.160> you<00:05:22.240> know

way because you know

way because you know you<00:05:22.960> know<00:05:23.039> there's<00:05:23.199> a<00:05:23.280> massive<00:05:23.600> debt<00:05:23.759> here

you know there's a massive debt here

you know there's a massive debt here it's<00:05:24.400> increased<00:05:24.720> huge<00:05:25.199> somebody<00:05:25.520> has<00:05:25.600> to<00:05:25.759> pay

it's increased huge somebody has to pay

it's increased huge somebody has to pay it

it

it and<00:05:26.800> in<00:05:26.960> a<00:05:27.039> sense<00:05:27.280> the<00:05:27.360> government<00:05:27.600> has<00:05:27.680> to

and in a sense the government has to

and in a sense the government has to choose<00:05:28.080> do<00:05:28.240> we<00:05:28.320> go<00:05:28.479> to<00:05:28.639> the<00:05:28.720> super<00:05:29.039> rich

choose do we go to the super rich

choose do we go to the super rich like<00:05:29.919> for<00:05:30.080> example<00:05:30.560> the<00:05:30.720> chancellor's<00:05:31.280> wife

like for example the chancellor's wife

like for example the chancellor's wife or<00:05:31.919> do<00:05:32.080> we<00:05:32.240> go<00:05:32.400> to<00:05:32.479> people<00:05:32.720> who<00:05:32.880> are<00:05:32.960> working

or do we go to people who are working

or do we go to people who are working yeah<00:05:33.759> and<00:05:34.560> at<00:05:34.720> the<00:05:34.800> moment<00:05:35.120> i've<00:05:35.360> worked<00:05:35.840> and

yeah and at the moment i've worked and

yeah and at the moment i've worked and i've<00:05:36.080> paid<00:05:36.240> a<00:05:36.320> lot<00:05:36.479> of<00:05:36.560> tax

i've paid a lot of tax

i've paid a lot of tax but<00:05:37.600> a<00:05:37.680> lot<00:05:37.840> of<00:05:37.919> these<00:05:38.000> guys<00:05:38.160> who<00:05:38.320> are<00:05:38.400> a<00:05:38.400> lot

but a lot of these guys who are a lot

but a lot of these guys who are a lot richer<00:05:38.800> than<00:05:38.880> me<00:05:39.120> many<00:05:39.360> many<00:05:39.600> many<00:05:39.840> times

richer than me many many many times

richer than me many many many times richer<00:05:40.240> than<00:05:40.320> me<00:05:40.560> and<00:05:40.720> i<00:05:40.800> presume<00:05:41.280> you<00:05:41.440> as<00:05:41.520> well

richer than me and i presume you as well

richer than me and i presume you as well are<00:05:42.160> not<00:05:42.320> paying<00:05:42.560> anything<00:05:42.880> and<00:05:43.199> it's<00:05:43.360> not

are not paying anything and it's not

are not paying anything and it's not fair<00:05:43.840> and<00:05:43.919> it's<00:05:44.080> damaging<00:05:44.479> to<00:05:44.560> the<00:05:44.639> economy

fair and it's damaging to the economy

fair and it's damaging to the economy because<00:05:45.360> if<00:05:45.440> you<00:05:45.520> squeeze<00:05:45.840> the<00:05:45.919> middle<00:05:46.160> class

because if you squeeze the middle class

because if you squeeze the middle class then<00:05:47.039> there's<00:05:47.199> no<00:05:47.360> spending<00:05:47.840> you<00:05:47.919> know<00:05:48.240> yeah

then there's no spending you know yeah

then there's no spending you know yeah wish<00:05:48.720> your<00:05:48.800> next<00:05:48.960> wife<00:05:49.199> is<00:05:49.280> not<00:05:49.440> going<00:05:49.520> to<00:05:49.600> keep

wish your next wife is not going to keep

wish your next wife is not going to keep the<00:05:49.840> whole<00:05:50.000> economy<00:05:50.400> alive<00:05:50.720> we<00:05:50.800> need<00:05:50.960> to<00:05:51.039> tax

the whole economy alive we need to tax

the whole economy alive we need to tax the<00:05:51.360> rich<00:05:51.600> as<00:05:51.680> well

the rich as well

the rich as well do<00:05:52.639> you<00:05:52.720> think<00:05:53.520> the<00:05:53.680> government<00:05:54.080> response<00:05:54.479> to

do you think the government response to

do you think the government response to that<00:05:54.880> might<00:05:55.120> but<00:05:55.280> apart<00:05:55.520> from<00:05:55.759> ideologically

that might but apart from ideologically

that might but apart from ideologically they<00:05:56.639> would<00:05:56.800> say<00:05:57.039> it's<00:05:57.199> not

they would say it's not

they would say it's not the<00:05:57.759> right<00:05:57.919> thing<00:05:58.160> to<00:05:58.319> do<00:05:59.280> and<00:05:59.440> we<00:05:59.520> can<00:05:59.680> argue

the right thing to do and we can argue

the right thing to do and we can argue that<00:06:00.080> forever<00:06:00.560> but

that forever but

that forever but do<00:06:00.960> you<00:06:01.039> think<00:06:01.120> the<00:06:01.199> government<00:06:01.600> might<00:06:01.840> say

do you think the government might say

do you think the government might say well<00:06:02.880> we'd<00:06:03.120> need<00:06:03.280> to<00:06:03.520> set<00:06:03.759> up

well we'd need to set up

well we'd need to set up such<00:06:04.319> a<00:06:04.720> complicated<00:06:05.520> system<00:06:05.919> in<00:06:06.000> order<00:06:06.240> to

such a complicated system in order to

such a complicated system in order to find<00:06:06.880> where<00:06:07.199> all<00:06:07.360> of<00:06:07.440> those

find where all of those

find where all of those funds<00:06:08.479> and<00:06:08.800> investments<00:06:09.680> look<00:06:10.160> that<00:06:10.319> it<00:06:10.400> would

funds and investments look that it would

funds and investments look that it would become<00:06:10.960> impossible

become impossible

become impossible yeah<00:06:12.720> i<00:06:12.800> mean<00:06:13.120> i<00:06:13.199> mean<00:06:13.520> when<00:06:13.759> you<00:06:13.840> consider<00:06:14.319> as

yeah i mean i mean when you consider as

yeah i mean i mean when you consider as we've<00:06:14.560> said<00:06:14.720> that<00:06:14.880> the<00:06:14.960> chancellor's

we've said that the chancellor's

we've said that the chancellor's father-in-law<00:06:15.919> is<00:06:16.000> a<00:06:16.080> multi-billionaire<00:06:16.880> the

father-in-law is a multi-billionaire the

father-in-law is a multi-billionaire the government<00:06:17.360> might<00:06:17.520> say<00:06:17.680> something<00:06:18.000> like<00:06:18.160> that

government might say something like that

government might say something like that but<00:06:18.960> um<00:06:19.520> the<00:06:19.680> work<00:06:19.919> that<00:06:20.080> the<00:06:20.160> economists<00:06:20.720> and

but um the work that the economists and

but um the work that the economists and the<00:06:20.880> various<00:06:21.280> people<00:06:21.520> on<00:06:21.600> this<00:06:21.680> panel<00:06:22.000> have

the various people on this panel have

the various people on this panel have done<00:06:22.479> today

done today

done today is<00:06:23.280> basically<00:06:23.600> saying<00:06:23.840> look<00:06:24.080> we've<00:06:24.240> done<00:06:24.400> the

is basically saying look we've done the

is basically saying look we've done the work<00:06:24.800> we've<00:06:24.960> shown<00:06:25.199> you<00:06:25.280> how<00:06:25.440> you<00:06:25.520> can<00:06:25.680> do<00:06:25.840> it

work we've shown you how you can do it

work we've shown you how you can do it we've<00:06:26.319> shown<00:06:26.479> you<00:06:26.639> how<00:06:26.720> it<00:06:26.800> can<00:06:26.960> work<00:06:27.120> and

we've shown you how it can work and

we've shown you how it can work and there<00:06:27.360> are<00:06:27.440> other<00:06:27.600> economies<00:06:28.080> in<00:06:28.160> america

there are other economies in america

there are other economies in america have<00:06:28.560> done<00:06:28.720> similar<00:06:29.039> work<00:06:29.199> like<00:06:29.360> gabriel

have done similar work like gabriel

have done similar work like gabriel zuckerman

zuckerman

zuckerman you<00:06:30.400> know<00:06:30.560> the<00:06:30.639> economists<00:06:31.120> are<00:06:31.199> putting<00:06:31.360> the

you know the economists are putting the

you know the economists are putting the work<00:06:31.680> in<00:06:31.919> to<00:06:32.080> show<00:06:32.240> how<00:06:32.479> you<00:06:32.560> can<00:06:32.720> do<00:06:32.960> it

work in to show how you can do it

work in to show how you can do it we<00:06:33.520> need<00:06:33.680> the<00:06:33.759> government<00:06:34.080> to<00:06:34.240> come<00:06:34.400> on<00:06:34.479> board

we need the government to come on board

we need the government to come on board and<00:06:34.880> say<00:06:35.039> look<00:06:35.520> we<00:06:35.759> are<00:06:35.840> committed<00:06:36.160> to<00:06:36.240> making

and say look we are committed to making

and say look we are committed to making sure<00:06:36.639> the<00:06:36.720> richest

sure the richest

sure the richest pay<00:06:37.600> as<00:06:37.680> well<00:06:37.919> and<00:06:38.319> the<00:06:38.479> economists<00:06:38.960> will<00:06:39.039> work

pay as well and the economists will work

pay as well and the economists will work with<00:06:39.360> them<00:06:39.520> i'll<00:06:39.680> work<00:06:39.840> with<00:06:40.000> them<00:06:40.080> for<00:06:40.240> free

with them i'll work with them for free

with them i'll work with them for free look<00:06:40.639> if<00:06:40.800> they<00:06:40.880> want<00:06:41.039> to<00:06:41.120> call<00:06:41.280> me<00:06:41.440> up<00:06:41.600> i'll

look if they want to call me up i'll

look if they want to call me up i'll work<00:06:41.919> with<00:06:42.080> them<00:06:42.240> i'll<00:06:42.400> tell<00:06:42.560> them<00:06:42.639> how<00:06:42.800> to<00:06:42.880> do

work with them i'll tell them how to do

work with them i'll tell them how to do it

it

it but<00:06:43.919> we<00:06:44.080> need<00:06:44.160> to<00:06:44.240> know<00:06:44.400> they're<00:06:44.560> on<00:06:44.720> side<00:06:45.039> and

but we need to know they're on side and

but we need to know they're on side and in<00:06:45.360> theory<00:06:45.680> they're<00:06:45.840> on<00:06:45.919> board<00:06:46.160> with<00:06:46.240> making

in theory they're on board with making

in theory they're on board with making sure

sure

sure the<00:06:47.199> super<00:06:47.600> rich<00:06:48.080> like<00:06:48.240> richardson<00:06:48.720> x<00:06:48.880> family

the super rich like richardson x family

the super rich like richardson x family like<00:06:49.280> jacob<00:06:49.599> rees-mogg<00:06:50.160> actually<00:06:50.560> pay<00:06:50.720> their

like jacob rees-mogg actually pay their

like jacob rees-mogg actually pay their way<00:06:51.120> and<00:06:51.280> it's<00:06:51.520> not<00:06:51.759> just<00:06:52.080> put<00:06:52.240> on<00:06:52.319> the

way and it's not just put on the

way and it's not just put on the hard-working<00:06:52.960> people<00:06:53.120> of<00:06:53.280> this<00:06:53.360> country

hard-working people of this country

hard-working people of this country good<00:06:54.160> work<00:06:54.400> gary<00:06:54.800> thank<00:06:55.039> you<00:06:55.280> gary<00:06:55.599> stevenson

good work gary thank you gary stevenson

good work gary thank you gary stevenson former<00:06:56.639> trader

former trader

former trader himself<00:06:58.319> a<00:06:58.400> millionaire<00:06:59.039> would<00:06:59.199> happily<00:06:59.599> pay

himself a millionaire would happily pay

himself a millionaire would happily pay more<00:07:00.240> money

more money

more money if<00:07:01.039> other<00:07:01.280> people<00:07:01.440> were<00:07:01.680> doing<00:07:01.919> it<00:07:02.000> but<00:07:02.160> is<00:07:02.319> it

if other people were doing it but is it

if other people were doing it but is it down<00:07:02.639> to<00:07:02.800> the<00:07:02.960> rich

down to the rich

down to the rich to<00:07:04.240> fill<00:07:04.479> that<00:07:04.800> void