i feel like we have more chance of making  a difference talking to the ordinary people  

who are actually being hurt and being affected  because they're going to see it and they're going  

to be like this is affecting me and my family we  need to do something about it whereas i can talk  

about it here with all these guys doing all  their maths & algebra, they don't care really  

they're comfortable and their families comfortable  and their community is comfortable you know

this is Lamb & Flag, one of Oxford's many fine pubs  its my favourite pub, cash only for no obvious reason  

this one's closed too

let's check one more time for 'stand by me' man

if he's not there like... I just  hope that he's there basically

he's not here man, 'stand by me' man is not here  

okay *are you alright?* no it's fine hopefully he's just... yeah

it's some really old church isn't it  yeah, no, yeah it's the Saxon tower  

of Saint Michael at the north gate  the oldest church tower in Oxford

so this I think is Baylor college  which is um Boris Johnson's college

these are quite good... heads

that's where we did our matriculation  do you know what matriculation is?  

it's like where you're like formally enrolled into the university

actually makes me you know what  like walking down these alleyways  

makes me quiet suddenly really nostalgic what it was i thought there was maybe

I thought speakeasy, yeah I've never that's the alternative name for

speak easy - stealth pub

this is it you can see how I [ ____ ] missed it

yeah turf is not far from econ department so um  

yeah every now and again when i just got too too  pissed off at the nonsense that we were doing in  

econ lectures I would just just leave and come  here and have a pint sometimes you've got to do it

so when I came here, 2017, so I was 30 years old, about to turn 31, so I'd already had the

successful career in the city so like, it was a funny one for me because I did economics 

and then i had a very successful career and I kind  of learned in my career that what I studied at  

university was not particularly useful so i  kind of already thought like i'm coming here  

you know I was one of the best paid economists  in the world you know what I mean so like  

I'm thinking I'm coming here to discuss but the professors... there were professors who  

did exactly, looked at exactly the kind of stuff  that I did right: interest rates, central banks, 

monetary policy... and I was like okay well you  know I'm one of the best paid people in the world

in this area, one of the most successful predictors  in the world in this area, let's talk about it... 

and they were not interested um *I know that's what you did*

*but I just mean* from a class perspective? by 30 31 I'd already been you know 6 years in the city  

3 years at LSE and these are already places  where there is basically almost no people  

from working-class backgrounds, actually LSE wasn't as bad as the City & Oxford

um so I've kind of become used to this like you know you exist in the city  

you're used to the fact that there's no people  from working class background um is it i mean  

it's frustrating because when you're talking  about economics you're talking about issues  

that affect people from working class backgrounds and people from privileged

backgrounds differently, um it was frustrating because some of my like people on my course  

were just disconnected from what was happening and it's so easy for them to just

argue maths and like little technical points  of philosophy but they don't really  

you know like for me it affects my sister you know I mean? you know what I'm saying?

you know? and like my best friends from childhood, but for them it's like just like a

it's like a nice like philosophical debate to have in the pub or to have in the common room

you know i mean? and it is frustrating when like, you don't feel that they feed it on

an emotional level it's just like uh...   something to talk about... they don't

i think it's... you know... I think you know lack of class diversity in a lot of areas

is important but in economics it just has this extra pain that you know we should  

economists should be discussing the  economic problems of people's lives  

*but it seems like the more advanced you've  got in economics the more exclusive it gets*  

yeah definitely it does yeah for sure *even with you probably acclimatizing*

yeah like Post-grad was worse than Under-grad  and I'm sure if you do PhD it'd be worse  

and then the professors are the worst of all you know what I mean um *would you consider doing a PhD?* 

you know never say never but like when you  consider it would take so long and I feel like

when I worked in the city if you are very good at  what you do you can progress very quickly but I  

feel like in academic economics it's a lot who you  know and just like do you play the game right and  

you know listen listen i'm a nobody right like i'm

a short guy from a poor background in Ilford  I'm not like handsome like a model I don't  

have no connections you know what I mean I'm not excellent football the only thing I've got is

I can make good predictions and like because I understand the economy better than anyone else  

that is enough to get to the top in the city but it gets you nowhere in academia, nowhere  

so like i would have to spend years working the  game and making connections and doing all of this  

stupid academic maths on whiteboards at the same  time the world's getting worse and worse and worse  

and at the end of it there's no guarantee that I'm  going to fix anything and there are good people  

in economics right there's most famously Thomas Piketty but there's also Gabriel Zucman

Mian & Sufi, Ludwig Straub these guys right like  who are doing this stuff in the academic space but  

i don't think it's really possible at the moment  even if you're saying exactly the right things  

to actually push through in economics because  nobody nobody knows nobody cares whether you're  

right or not nobody even notices whether you're  right or not you know what i mean so i feel  

like we have more chance of making a difference  talking to the ordinary people who are actually  

being hurt and being affected because they're  going to see it and they're going to be like  

this is affecting me and my family we need  to do something about it whereas i can talk  

about it here with all these guys doing all  their maths and algebra they don't care really  

they're comfortable and their families comfortable  and their community is comfortable you know  

so um never say never and I did enjoy like  you know I'm good at maths and algebra and  

I enjoy doing it and I enjoy the beauty  of the model but the problem is the people  

are too often I don't wanna act like everyone in economics is a [ __ ] because they're not  

there's a lot of good people but there  are a lot of people that are just just  

chatting [ __ ] all the time basically and they  don't care they don't want to change anything  

they're just careerists they just want to write a load of papers and make a load of money  

they don't care about being right they don't  care about what's happening it's frustrating

*it's sounds frustrating*

it's frustrating being there man  it was frustrating being there but  

oh it's all right you know i went  gym every day what can you do  

did a lot of algebra i made some good mates there are some good people here in the subject

*you know the economists you mentioned, Piketty, what background are they from?*

i don't know actually to be honest i don't know to be honest, um

Atif Mian is the one that I talk to I think is it Atif Mian? yeah

*have they encountered similar difficulties?* so he's from Pakistan so obviously there's a lot  

of poverty in Pakistan I don't know what his background is like, if he got into the industry

he's probably not like from poverty or anything um Ludwig Straub is German, Piketty  

I don't know what these guys personal back.. I don't think they're from poor backgrounds  

I don't know who's from a poor background i dunno, there's another guy Ha-Joon Chang

that I like, he looks at kind of different stuff and  he's got he's well known he's got a lot of books  

if anybody's like looking for more reading to  do like especially if you're interested in like  

poorer countries you know there's a lot of  people who have family from poor countries  

who might be watching and interested in the  situations in these countries he talks about that  

um i don't know but like i mean when you meet  someone you don't automatically know their  

background but you kind of you can get a vibe  from the accent and stuff what was amazing is like  

this is Oxford, its the top university in England  there were no English accent you know what i mean  

there was one guy on the course from Harrogate  which is in Yorkshire, had a Yorkshire accent  

I don't think he was like strapped for cash  nice guy um there were like there was one   

British-Indian guy from Manchester, no from Birmingham, tried to pretend he's from Manchester

maybe from somewhere between, Stoke, yeah there was no accents man and that's because everyone  

is just from that same sort of rich background  from all different countries yeah it's a shame

I'm getting really emotional I just haven't

i don't know there's something about  these alleyways that i like and

because i used to go to this pub and have a couple  

of drinks and then you sort of  stagger through these alleyways

it's a beautiful night as well like  after a rainy day suddenly we've got this  

perfectly clear starry sky

poorer families will be forced to lose almost all of their assets... including their home

we have a tax system which is very efficient at taxing ordinary working people  

but very inefficient at taxing the super rich