I'm what's given me hope previously is when  you mentioned things can change and I think  

you pointed to post World War II as a time where  there was change and just now you've mentioned  

that 100 years ago housing was just an inheritable  asset, was it just that post World War II period 

that changed that? how did we go from that to post world war 2?

I'm an economist I'm not like a super expert  in history but you know this is obviously my  

particular area of interest is um what I find  what is quite interesting is after the World  

War II you saw a big increase in tax rates on the  very reach not just in the UK but really globally  

um and you'd seen that just before World  War II happen in the US with uh FDR  

Franklin Roosevelt with the New Deal deciding  we're going to push money to ordinary people  

um so I think what happened was you know and you  know different people can disagree with this but  

you know second order obviously we didn't do the  second world but second world war was a period  

where basically the whole of Europe devoted its  entire economy to building tanks and planes and  

bombs and destroying everything and killing  everyone and just [ __ ] the country up right  

[ __ ] the whole of Europe up right yeah at the  same time if you were in the England in World  

War II or Germany I'm not at all saying these are  perfect places to live they still made sure that  

everyone had housing education and Healthcare  right and food all right that was so people  

saw during World War II that okay we can devote  our entire economy to killing each other and yet  

still make sure everyone has housing education  Healthcare and food and I think people sort of  

it opened people's eyes a little bit to sort  of number one what is possible in our economy  

and number two how awful things can be if you  don't manage it you know what I mean like it's  

what I say you know I know it's not popular to  be political but if you're a student of History  

you see what happens to poor people when they're  not political you know it wasn't the rich guys  

you know sending their kids out to die you know it  was poor people you know and I think they sort of

I think once you've you know I've never obviously  fought in a war right but I think once you've done  

that you start realizing [ __ ] me we need  to change the way we run our society right  

and then people came back from that and they  said no we we're not going to accept this this  

[ __ ] you know we want we want [ __ ] housing  food Healthcare education for everyone and we  

know you can afford it we know we can afford  that as a society so they so you saw basically  

every country in Europe simultaneously  basically politically demand those things  

um and we moved to a space where the top rate of  income tax was 95 and the top rate of inheritance  

tax was 90 and you know we moved into an  economy where people like my dad who didn't  

go to university worked with the post office  goodbye a home and raise a family and have  

food you know not be rich but you could have that  level of stability um and I think what it shows is  

the power of political Unity amongst poorer  people and this is this is what I keep saying  

right if you demand it if you absolutely demand  it that inequality gets better and wealth flows  

to ordinary families then you will get it and the  reason we don't get it is because you know we have  

media and politics which is very heavily  influenced by extremely wealthy people that  

tell you stories like oh no if we text rich  people the economy will collapse the rich  

people will leave it will be a disaster you know  don't worry about your kids they'll stop buying  

cappuccinos and they'll be fine you know media  tells you this story that everything is okay  

and you don't need to do anything at the same time  ordinary families get poorer and poorer and the  

guys who own the media I get richer and richer  right so it's the power of stories you know and  

you know I know that the story that I sell is very  negative because I say if you don't do anything  

and we're not doing anything we're not doing  enough we're not United enough life will get worse  

that's not a very palatable message right whereas  you know Rupert Murdoch is going to tell you in  

the times that don't worry your kids will be fine  as long as they stop buying avocado on toast right  

which is a lie but it's much nicer to believe that  than the truth of the situation which is that your  

kids aren't going to be up to four 12 grandkids  you know what I mean so I think history shows us  

you know in general when Ordinary People are not  politicized they get screwed over over time you  

know because the rich are politicized because they  have the money and the power and the time to do it  

um but eventually when things get bad enough  people realize [ __ ] me we need to be politicized  

because otherwise this is what happens you know  you know both my granddads went and fought in  

the War and probably [ __ ] killed people you know  what I mean I've got no idea what that is like you  

know but that is hell right I think you witnessed  that that makes you realize [ __ ] me we need to  

change things and that is you know obviously we're  not at that point now but you know things are  

getting worse and things are getting serious and  that that is an example of how bad things can get  

if ordinary working people are not politicized to  defend themselves and I think one thing that we  

saw in the last couple of weeks with the back down  and the 45 tax for the riches that created a risk  

to the mortgages to people's mortgages and it's  wealthier people that have big mortgages poorest  

people can't get mortgages at all right and a lot  of them work in the media and a lot of them work  

in politics and you see these people turn around  and said [ __ ] this we're not accepting it and  

you see this conservative party switch like that  and that is because you know that upper middle  

class have political power and they use it you  know they work they might not own the newspapers  

but they work in the newspapers you know they  might not own the TV stations but they work in the  

TV stations whereas this sort of poorer 70 percent  they do have political power but they often don't  

use it and that is I'm not blaming them for  that because I'll come from that background  

and I know what it's like you just want to make  sure you're taken care of and it's difficult  

but it's like I say you know there's a political  game being played here for wealth for power for  

assets and if you don't play it you're going to  lose it and you know the bottom 70 they don't have  

a lot of money they don't have a lot of assets but  they have a lot of people so the only Power they  

have is their voting power their power to tell  stories their power to build community but if they  

don't use that they'll lose their assets then like  it's worth so I think um history shows up shows us  

it's possible but it's only possible why people  coming together and sometimes it takes extremely  

bad situations for people to do that I don't want  it to get to that this time I want us to prevent  

those extremely bad situations from happening  but if we if we don't that's where we'll end up