gary<00:00:00.640> stevenson<00:00:01.199> is<00:00:01.360> a<00:00:01.439> multi-millionaire

gary stevenson is a multi-millionaire

gary stevenson is a multi-millionaire and<00:00:02.399> former<00:00:02.800> trader<00:00:03.360> who<00:00:03.520> wants<00:00:03.760> to<00:00:03.919> see

and former trader who wants to see

and former trader who wants to see higher<00:00:04.720> taxes<00:00:05.600> annabelle<00:00:06.080> denham<00:00:06.480> is<00:00:06.560> from

higher taxes annabelle denham is from

higher taxes annabelle denham is from the<00:00:06.879> institute

the institute

the institute of<00:00:08.160> economic<00:00:08.720> affairs<00:00:09.120> the<00:00:09.280> uk's<00:00:09.760> free<00:00:10.000> market

of economic affairs the uk's free market

of economic affairs the uk's free market think<00:00:10.719> tech

think tech

think tech tank<00:00:11.759> and<00:00:11.920> rachel<00:00:12.320> k<00:00:12.799> is<00:00:12.960> a<00:00:13.040> researcher<00:00:13.599> at<00:00:13.679> the

tank and rachel k is a researcher at the

tank and rachel k is a researcher at the high<00:00:14.000> pay<00:00:14.320> center<00:00:14.639> an<00:00:14.799> independent

high pay center an independent

high pay center an independent non-partisan<00:00:16.640> think<00:00:16.960> tank<00:00:17.440> focused<00:00:17.840> on<00:00:17.920> the

non-partisan think tank focused on the

non-partisan think tank focused on the causes<00:00:18.480> and<00:00:18.640> consequences<00:00:19.359> of<00:00:19.439> economic

causes and consequences of economic

causes and consequences of economic inequality

inequality

inequality with<00:00:21.039> a<00:00:21.119> particular<00:00:21.760> interest<00:00:22.480> in<00:00:22.720> top<00:00:23.279> pay

with a particular interest in top pay

with a particular interest in top pay and<00:00:24.240> annabelle<00:00:24.800> well<00:00:24.960> welcome<00:00:25.359> to<00:00:25.439> you<00:00:25.599> all

and annabelle well welcome to you all

and annabelle well welcome to you all first<00:00:26.080> of<00:00:26.240> all<00:00:26.400> annabelle

first of all annabelle

first of all annabelle um<00:00:27.279> can<00:00:27.439> i<00:00:27.599> start<00:00:27.760> with<00:00:27.840> you<00:00:28.000> do<00:00:28.080> you<00:00:28.160> think

um can i start with you do you think

um can i start with you do you think anyone<00:00:28.800> can<00:00:29.039> ever<00:00:29.279> be<00:00:29.439> worth<00:00:29.760> 48

anyone can ever be worth 48

anyone can ever be worth 48 000<00:00:30.960> pounds<00:00:31.359> an<00:00:31.599> hour

well<00:00:34.320> i<00:00:34.399> think<00:00:34.640> we're<00:00:34.960> worth<00:00:35.440> what<00:00:35.760> employers

well i think we're worth what employers

well i think we're worth what employers are<00:00:36.320> willing<00:00:36.719> to

are willing to

are willing to pay<00:00:37.520> us<00:00:37.840> and<00:00:38.559> that<00:00:38.800> depends<00:00:39.280> on<00:00:39.440> us<00:00:39.520> being<00:00:39.760> able

pay us and that depends on us being able

pay us and that depends on us being able to<00:00:40.000> provide<00:00:40.399> services<00:00:40.960> that<00:00:41.200> consumers<00:00:41.840> are

to provide services that consumers are

to provide services that consumers are willing<00:00:42.960> to<00:00:43.440> pay<00:00:43.840> for<00:00:44.640> um<00:00:44.960> you<00:00:45.120> know<00:00:45.280> people

willing to pay for um you know people

willing to pay for um you know people like<00:00:46.079> denise<00:00:46.559> coates<00:00:46.960> they're<00:00:47.200> paid<00:00:47.840> like

like denise coates they're paid like

like denise coates they're paid like that<00:00:48.320> because<00:00:48.559> they're<00:00:48.800> delivering<00:00:49.440> the

that because they're delivering the

that because they're delivering the goods

goods

goods and<00:00:50.879> in<00:00:51.039> fact<00:00:51.199> you<00:00:51.280> know<00:00:51.440> the<00:00:51.520> british<00:00:51.840> public

and in fact you know the british public

and in fact you know the british public are<00:00:52.480> actually<00:00:53.280> quite

are actually quite

are actually quite uh<00:00:54.800> sympathetic<00:00:55.760> to<00:00:55.920> the<00:00:56.079> idea<00:00:56.559> that<00:00:56.879> uh

uh sympathetic to the idea that uh

uh sympathetic to the idea that uh risk-taking<00:00:58.000> entrepreneurs<00:00:58.879> are<00:00:59.359> paid<00:01:00.079> um

risk-taking entrepreneurs are paid um

risk-taking entrepreneurs are paid um or<00:01:00.640> remunerated<00:01:01.920> very<00:01:02.719> highly

or remunerated very highly

or remunerated very highly um<00:01:03.920> and<00:01:04.080> i<00:01:04.320> think<00:01:04.559> a<00:01:04.640> really<00:01:04.879> important<00:01:05.360> point

um and i think a really important point

um and i think a really important point to<00:01:05.760> make<00:01:06.000> here<00:01:06.240> is<00:01:06.400> that

to make here is that

to make here is that denise<00:01:07.280> coates<00:01:07.680> hasn't<00:01:08.080> received<00:01:08.560> high<00:01:08.880> pay

denise coates hasn't received high pay

denise coates hasn't received high pay at<00:01:09.360> the<00:01:09.520> expense<00:01:10.080> of<00:01:10.240> others

at the expense of others

at the expense of others even<00:01:11.119> if<00:01:11.200> you<00:01:11.280> don't<00:01:11.520> approve<00:01:11.920> of<00:01:12.080> gambling

even if you don't approve of gambling

even if you don't approve of gambling she's<00:01:12.799> created<00:01:13.200> an<00:01:13.439> incredibly<00:01:14.000> successful

she's created an incredibly successful

she's created an incredibly successful tech<00:01:14.880> company<00:01:15.280> in<00:01:15.360> stoke

tech company in stoke

tech company in stoke that's<00:01:16.400> able<00:01:16.720> to<00:01:16.799> compete<00:01:17.280> on<00:01:17.439> a<00:01:17.520> global<00:01:17.920> level

that's able to compete on a global level

that's able to compete on a global level and<00:01:18.720> the<00:01:18.880> money<00:01:19.119> that<00:01:19.360> she<00:01:19.520> has

and the money that she has

and the money that she has earned<00:01:20.720> reflects<00:01:21.360> that<00:01:21.840> and<00:01:22.000> i<00:01:22.159> think<00:01:22.880> too

earned reflects that and i think too

earned reflects that and i think too often

often

often we<00:01:25.280> argue<00:01:25.920> that<00:01:26.320> um

we argue that um

we argue that um or<00:01:27.840> make<00:01:28.080> the<00:01:28.159> cake<00:01:28.479> the<00:01:28.560> case<00:01:28.799> is<00:01:28.960> made<00:01:29.520> that

or make the cake the case is made that

or make the cake the case is made that in<00:01:30.159> taxing

in taxing

in taxing those<00:01:31.520> at<00:01:31.600> the<00:01:31.759> top<00:01:32.479> or<00:01:33.119> taking<00:01:33.520> money<00:01:33.759> in<00:01:33.920> some

those at the top or taking money in some

those at the top or taking money in some way<00:01:34.400> confiscating<00:01:35.119> assets<00:01:35.600> from<00:01:35.840> those<00:01:36.159> at

way confiscating assets from those at

way confiscating assets from those at the<00:01:36.400> top

the top

the top it'll<00:01:37.200> somehow<00:01:37.680> trickle<00:01:38.079> down<00:01:38.320> to<00:01:38.479> those<00:01:38.720> at

it'll somehow trickle down to those at

it'll somehow trickle down to those at the<00:01:38.960> bottom<00:01:39.360> that<00:01:39.520> simply<00:01:39.920> isn't<00:01:40.159> the<00:01:40.320> case

the bottom that simply isn't the case

the bottom that simply isn't the case ultimately<00:01:41.600> the<00:01:41.680> market<00:01:42.000> for<00:01:42.159> top<00:01:42.399> talent<00:01:42.799> and

ultimately the market for top talent and

ultimately the market for top talent and the<00:01:42.960> market<00:01:43.280> for<00:01:43.439> low-skilled<00:01:43.920> labor<00:01:44.320> are

the market for low-skilled labor are

the market for low-skilled labor are simply<00:01:44.799> separate<00:01:45.119> markets<00:01:45.600> and<00:01:45.759> you<00:01:45.920> cannot

simply separate markets and you cannot

simply separate markets and you cannot help<00:01:46.560> low<00:01:46.799> earners

help low earners

help low earners with<00:01:48.240> knee-jerk<00:01:48.799> eat<00:01:48.960> the<00:01:49.119> rich<00:01:49.360> policies

with knee-jerk eat the rich policies

with knee-jerk eat the rich policies and<00:01:51.840> how<00:01:52.000> do<00:01:52.159> you<00:01:52.240> know<00:01:52.399> that<00:01:52.560> the<00:01:52.720> british

and how do you know that the british

and how do you know that the british public<00:01:53.680> are<00:01:53.840> in<00:01:54.000> favor<00:01:54.399> of<00:01:54.640> such

public are in favor of such

public are in favor of such massive<00:01:55.840> remunerations

well<00:02:00.799> i<00:02:00.880> mean<00:02:01.280> polling<00:02:01.680> has<00:02:01.920> kind<00:02:02.079> of

well i mean polling has kind of

well i mean polling has kind of consisten

recently<00:02:06.640> shown<00:02:07.040> that<00:02:08.080> the<00:02:08.239> public<00:02:08.640> are<00:02:08.720> not

recently shown that the public are not

recently shown that the public are not sympathetic<00:02:09.440> to<00:02:09.599> the<00:02:09.679> argument<00:02:10.080> that<00:02:10.160> we

sympathetic to the argument that we

sympathetic to the argument that we should<00:02:10.479> tax<00:02:10.800> somebody<00:02:11.200> like<00:02:11.360> denise<00:02:11.760> coats

should tax somebody like denise coats

should tax somebody like denise coats more<00:02:13.040> and<00:02:13.280> they<00:02:13.520> do<00:02:13.760> believe<00:02:14.000> that<00:02:20.840> some

my<00:02:24.959> salaries<00:02:25.599> are<00:02:25.920> justified<00:02:26.560> and<00:02:26.720> are

my salaries are justified and are

my salaries are justified and are broadly<00:02:27.200> comfortable<00:02:27.680> with

broadly comfortable with

broadly comfortable with entrepreneurs<00:02:28.640> earning<00:02:29.040> large<00:02:29.680> amounts<00:02:30.160> of

entrepreneurs earning large amounts of

entrepreneurs earning large amounts of money<00:02:30.720> what<00:02:30.879> people

money what people

money what people do<00:02:31.760> sometimes<00:02:32.400> struggle<00:02:32.800> with<00:02:33.040> is<00:02:33.120> the<00:02:33.400> idea

do sometimes struggle with is the idea

do sometimes struggle with is the idea or<00:02:35.040> they're<00:02:35.280> less<00:02:35.519> happy<00:02:35.920> with<00:02:36.080> the<00:02:36.239> idea<00:02:36.640> that

or they're less happy with the idea that

or they're less happy with the idea that senior<00:02:37.760> company<00:02:38.319> employees

senior company employees

senior company employees are<00:02:39.840> paid<00:02:40.160> very<00:02:40.959> well<00:02:41.280> because<00:02:41.680> often<00:02:42.000> people

are paid very well because often people

are paid very well because often people don't

don't

don't see<00:02:43.680> the<00:02:43.920> value<00:02:44.400> they<00:02:44.560> don't<00:02:45.200> necessarily

see the value they don't necessarily

see the value they don't necessarily notice

notice

notice that<00:02:46.879> that<00:02:47.200> individual<00:02:47.840> is<00:02:48.080> producing

that that individual is producing

that that individual is producing value<00:02:50.080> but<00:02:50.400> that's<00:02:51.200> that's<00:02:51.680> not<00:02:51.920> the<00:02:52.080> case<00:02:52.400> i

value but that's that's not the case i

value but that's that's not the case i mean<00:02:52.640> just<00:02:52.800> to<00:02:52.959> go<00:02:53.120> back<00:02:53.360> to<00:02:53.440> my<00:02:53.599> original

mean just to go back to my original

mean just to go back to my original point<00:02:54.480> where

point where

point where people<00:02:55.920> are<00:02:56.239> paid<00:02:56.720> what<00:02:57.040> employers<00:02:57.519> are

people are paid what employers are

people are paid what employers are willing<00:02:57.920> to<00:02:58.080> pay

willing to pay

willing to pay contingent<00:03:00.640> on<00:03:00.959> on<00:03:01.200> their<00:03:01.360> skills<00:03:02.720> gary

contingent on on their skills gary

contingent on on their skills gary you've<00:03:03.920> probably<00:03:04.720> earned<00:03:05.519> 48<00:03:06.239> 000<00:03:06.640> pounds<00:03:07.040> in

you've probably earned 48 000 pounds in

you've probably earned 48 000 pounds in an<00:03:07.360> hour<00:03:07.599> at<00:03:07.760> some<00:03:08.000> point<00:03:08.400> in<00:03:08.560> your<00:03:08.800> career

an hour at some point in your career

an hour at some point in your career and<00:03:09.920> how<00:03:10.080> did<00:03:10.239> you<00:03:10.400> feel<00:03:10.640> about<00:03:10.959> it<00:03:11.040> or<00:03:11.200> how<00:03:11.440> do

and how did you feel about it or how do

and how did you feel about it or how do you<00:03:11.840> feel<00:03:12.000> about<00:03:12.400> it

you feel about it

you feel about it uh<00:03:13.519> i<00:03:13.599> don't<00:03:13.760> think<00:03:13.920> i<00:03:14.000> ever<00:03:14.159> quite<00:03:14.319> made<00:03:14.480> it<00:03:14.560> to

uh i don't think i ever quite made it to

uh i don't think i ever quite made it to 48<00:03:15.200> 000<00:03:15.440> pounds<00:03:15.760> an<00:03:15.920> hour<00:03:16.159> um

48 000 pounds an hour um

48 000 pounds an hour um so<00:03:16.720> look<00:03:17.040> i'm<00:03:17.200> from<00:03:17.360> a<00:03:17.440> poor<00:03:17.599> background<00:03:18.080> and<00:03:18.400> i

so look i'm from a poor background and i

so look i'm from a poor background and i made<00:03:18.800> money<00:03:19.120> and<00:03:19.360> i<00:03:19.519> know<00:03:19.680> how<00:03:19.840> important<00:03:20.159> it

made money and i know how important it

made money and i know how important it is<00:03:20.480> for<00:03:20.640> people<00:03:20.959> from<00:03:21.120> poor<00:03:21.360> backgrounds

is for people from poor backgrounds

is for people from poor backgrounds to<00:03:22.319> be<00:03:22.480> able<00:03:22.560> to<00:03:22.720> make<00:03:22.879> money<00:03:23.200> so<00:03:23.360> um<00:03:23.680> you<00:03:23.840> know

to be able to make money so um you know

to be able to make money so um you know annabelle<00:03:24.319> said<00:03:24.480> something<00:03:24.720> really

annabelle said something really

annabelle said something really interesting<00:03:25.280> there<00:03:25.440> which<00:03:25.599> is<00:03:25.680> about<00:03:25.840> this<00:03:26.080> is

interesting there which is about this is

interesting there which is about this is the<00:03:26.239> market<00:03:26.560> for<00:03:26.720> top<00:03:26.959> talent<00:03:27.280> look<00:03:27.440> i've<00:03:27.599> been

the market for top talent look i've been

the market for top talent look i've been in<00:03:27.840> that<00:03:27.920> market<00:03:28.239> for<00:03:28.400> top<00:03:28.560> talent

in that market for top talent

in that market for top talent i<00:03:29.440> understand<00:03:29.840> that<00:03:30.000> market<00:03:30.400> helps<00:03:30.799> poor

i understand that market helps poor

i understand that market helps poor people<00:03:31.360> make<00:03:31.519> money<00:03:32.080> but<00:03:32.239> let's<00:03:32.480> look<00:03:32.640> at<00:03:32.720> what

people make money but let's look at what

people make money but let's look at what actually<00:03:33.120> happened<00:03:33.440> here<00:03:33.599> right

actually happened here right

actually happened here right so<00:03:34.879> annabelle<00:03:35.200> coach<00:03:35.440> she<00:03:35.519> gets<00:03:35.760> paid<00:03:35.920> uh

so annabelle coach she gets paid uh

so annabelle coach she gets paid uh denise<00:03:36.480> coat<00:03:36.640> sorry<00:03:36.879> she<00:03:37.040> gets<00:03:37.120> paid<00:03:37.280> 480

denise coat sorry she gets paid 480

denise coat sorry she gets paid 480 million<00:03:38.319> pounds

million pounds

million pounds what<00:03:39.599> was<00:03:39.760> that<00:03:39.920> market<00:03:40.319> like<00:03:40.480> okay<00:03:40.720> so<00:03:40.879> who<00:03:41.920> is

what was that market like okay so who is

what was that market like okay so who is the<00:03:42.159> owner<00:03:42.560> of<00:03:42.640> the<00:03:42.720> company

the owner of the company

the owner of the company well<00:03:43.440> that<00:03:43.599> is<00:03:43.760> actually<00:03:44.080> denise<00:03:44.400> code<00:03:44.560> so

well that is actually denise code so

well that is actually denise code so denise<00:03:45.040> coates<00:03:45.360> owns<00:03:45.599> them

denise coates owns them

denise coates owns them so<00:03:46.560> when<00:03:46.720> she<00:03:46.879> looked<00:03:47.040> around<00:03:47.280> the<00:03:47.360> market<00:03:47.680> for

so when she looked around the market for

so when she looked around the market for who<00:03:47.920> were<00:03:48.080> the<00:03:48.159> best<00:03:48.319> ceos<00:03:48.959> well<00:03:49.120> she<00:03:49.280> picked

who were the best ceos well she picked

who were the best ceos well she picked and<00:03:50.560> then<00:03:50.720> when<00:03:50.879> she<00:03:51.040> decided<00:03:51.360> how<00:03:51.519> much<00:03:51.680> to

and then when she decided how much to

and then when she decided how much to offer<00:03:52.080> herself<00:03:52.560> to<00:03:53.439> convince<00:03:53.840> herself<00:03:54.080> to

offer herself to convince herself to

offer herself to convince herself to take<00:03:54.319> that<00:03:54.480> job<00:03:54.799> she<00:03:55.040> chose

take that job she chose

take that job she chose 480<00:03:56.159> million<00:03:56.400> pounds<00:03:56.720> so<00:03:57.519> when<00:03:57.680> we<00:03:57.840> look<00:03:57.920> at

480 million pounds so when we look at

480 million pounds so when we look at that<00:03:58.319> it<00:03:58.400> doesn't<00:03:58.720> really<00:03:58.959> look<00:03:59.120> to<00:03:59.280> me<00:03:59.519> like

that it doesn't really look to me like

that it doesn't really look to me like she's

she's

she's really<00:04:00.400> taken<00:04:00.720> the<00:04:00.799> most<00:04:00.959> talented<00:04:01.360> person

really taken the most talented person

really taken the most talented person there<00:04:01.840> because<00:04:02.080> she<00:04:02.959> herself<00:04:03.519> she<00:04:03.680> is<00:04:03.760> the

there because she herself she is the

there because she herself she is the owner<00:04:04.319> of<00:04:04.480> the<00:04:04.560> company

owner of the company

owner of the company she<00:04:05.360> owns<00:04:05.599> the<00:04:05.760> company<00:04:06.560> she<00:04:06.720> decided<00:04:07.040> to<00:04:07.200> hire

she owns the company she decided to hire

she owns the company she decided to hire herself<00:04:07.840> as<00:04:07.920> ceo

herself as ceo

herself as ceo to<00:04:09.519> pay<00:04:09.760> herself<00:04:10.159> 480<00:04:10.799> million<00:04:11.040> pounds<00:04:12.080> i

to pay herself 480 million pounds i

to pay herself 480 million pounds i don't<00:04:12.319> think<00:04:12.560> really<00:04:12.799> this<00:04:12.959> is<00:04:13.040> a<00:04:13.200> case<00:04:13.920> of<00:04:14.159> big

don't think really this is a case of big

don't think really this is a case of big companies<00:04:14.879> picking<00:04:15.120> the<00:04:15.200> best<00:04:15.439> talents

companies picking the best talents

companies picking the best talents i<00:04:16.479> think<00:04:16.639> this<00:04:16.799> is<00:04:16.959> a<00:04:17.040> case<00:04:17.359> of<00:04:18.079> very<00:04:18.320> very

i think this is a case of very very

i think this is a case of very very wealthy<00:04:18.799> people<00:04:19.199> from<00:04:19.440> very<00:04:19.680> very<00:04:19.840> wealthy

wealthy people from very very wealthy

wealthy people from very very wealthy families

families

families paying<00:04:21.440> themselves<00:04:21.919> as<00:04:22.160> much<00:04:22.400> as<00:04:22.479> they<00:04:22.639> want

paying themselves as much as they want

paying themselves as much as they want yeah<00:04:24.560> i<00:04:24.639> mean<00:04:24.880> and<00:04:25.040> then<00:04:25.280> let's<00:04:25.520> move<00:04:25.680> away

yeah i mean and then let's move away

yeah i mean and then let's move away from<00:04:26.240> from<00:04:26.639> denise<00:04:27.199> because<00:04:27.360> she's

from from denise because she's

from from denise because she's merely<00:04:28.160> an<00:04:28.400> example<00:04:28.960> and<00:04:29.120> and<00:04:29.440> one<00:04:29.680> of<00:04:29.759> the

merely an example and and one of the

merely an example and and one of the more<00:04:30.080> recent<00:04:30.320> ones<00:04:30.560> that<00:04:30.720> we've<00:04:30.880> talked<00:04:31.120> about

more recent ones that we've talked about

more recent ones that we've talked about a<00:04:31.759> new<00:04:32.000> 31<00:04:32.479> year<00:04:32.720> old

a new 31 year old

a new 31 year old billionaire<00:04:33.759> on<00:04:33.840> the<00:04:33.919> forbes<00:04:34.240> list<00:04:34.479> today<00:04:34.880> as

billionaire on the forbes list today as

billionaire on the forbes list today as well<00:04:35.440> i<00:04:35.520> mean<00:04:35.840> rachel

well i mean rachel

well i mean rachel a<00:04:36.639> new<00:04:36.800> billionaire<00:04:37.280> was<00:04:37.440> created<00:04:37.840> every<00:04:38.240> 17

a new billionaire was created every 17

a new billionaire was created every 17 hours<00:04:39.199> during<00:04:39.360> the<00:04:39.520> pandemic

hours during the pandemic

hours during the pandemic do<00:04:40.400> you<00:04:40.479> think<00:04:40.639> that<00:04:40.800> the<00:04:41.199> the<00:04:41.440> wealth<00:04:41.759> divide

do you think that the the wealth divide

do you think that the the wealth divide will<00:04:42.400> continue<00:04:42.800> to<00:04:42.960> grow

will continue to grow

will continue to grow if<00:04:43.680> if<00:04:43.840> governments<00:04:44.320> don't<00:04:44.960> tackle<00:04:45.360> the<00:04:45.520> issue

if if governments don't tackle the issue

if if governments don't tackle the issue in<00:04:46.080> some<00:04:46.320> way<00:04:46.639> i<00:04:46.800> mean<00:04:46.960> i'm<00:04:47.280> i'm<00:04:47.440> listening<00:04:47.759> to

in some way i mean i'm i'm listening to

in some way i mean i'm i'm listening to annabelle<00:04:48.880> and<00:04:49.040> and<00:04:49.199> gary's<00:04:49.680> points<00:04:50.080> but<00:04:50.479> but

annabelle and and gary's points but but

annabelle and and gary's points but but it<00:04:51.199> is<00:04:51.440> escalating<00:04:52.240> is<00:04:52.400> it<00:04:52.479> not<00:04:52.800> and<00:04:52.880> there<00:04:53.120> has

it is escalating is it not and there has

it is escalating is it not and there has to<00:04:53.360> come<00:04:53.520> a<00:04:53.680> point<00:04:54.000> where<00:04:54.240> where<00:04:54.479> perhaps<00:04:54.880> that

to come a point where where perhaps that

to come a point where where perhaps that divide<00:04:55.759> starts<00:04:56.080> to<00:04:56.240> shrink<00:04:56.639> rather<00:04:56.960> than

divide starts to shrink rather than

divide starts to shrink rather than expand

expand

expand yeah<00:04:59.360> absolutely<00:05:00.320> is<00:05:00.560> escalating<00:05:01.280> i<00:05:01.520> i<00:05:01.680> wanted

yeah absolutely is escalating i i wanted

yeah absolutely is escalating i i wanted just<00:05:02.240> to<00:05:02.320> go<00:05:02.560> back

just to go back

just to go back before<00:05:03.280> i<00:05:03.440> answer<00:05:03.759> this<00:05:03.840> question<00:05:04.160> to<00:05:04.320> the

before i answer this question to the

before i answer this question to the point<00:05:04.960> raised<00:05:05.199> by<00:05:05.440> annabelle<00:05:05.840> because<00:05:06.000> i

point raised by annabelle because i

point raised by annabelle because i think<00:05:06.240> it's<00:05:06.400> actually<00:05:06.639> really<00:05:06.880> important<00:05:07.360> to

think it's actually really important to

think it's actually really important to address<00:05:09.360> some<00:05:09.600> of<00:05:09.759> the<00:05:10.320> ideas<00:05:10.800> behind<00:05:11.280> those

address some of the ideas behind those

address some of the ideas behind those so

so

so i<00:05:12.160> think<00:05:12.560> it's<00:05:12.720> fair<00:05:12.880> to<00:05:13.039> say<00:05:13.199> that<00:05:13.360> most

i think it's fair to say that most

i think it's fair to say that most people<00:05:13.840> would<00:05:14.080> accept<00:05:14.800> that<00:05:15.039> those

people would accept that those

people would accept that those who<00:05:15.680> run<00:05:15.919> successful<00:05:16.400> businesses<00:05:16.960> should<00:05:17.120> be

who run successful businesses should be

who run successful businesses should be paid<00:05:17.520> more<00:05:17.680> than<00:05:17.919> average

paid more than average

paid more than average but<00:05:18.720> there's<00:05:18.880> a<00:05:18.960> really<00:05:19.120> important<00:05:19.600> question

but there's a really important question

but there's a really important question of<00:05:19.919> proportionality<00:05:20.880> here<00:05:21.199> um

of proportionality here um

of proportionality here um so<00:05:22.000> it's<00:05:22.160> obviously<00:05:22.479> not<00:05:22.639> proportional<00:05:23.120> to

so it's obviously not proportional to

so it's obviously not proportional to how<00:05:23.360> hard<00:05:23.600> she's<00:05:23.840> worked<00:05:24.240> because

how hard she's worked because

how hard she's worked because her<00:05:25.120> pay<00:05:25.280> award<00:05:25.680> is<00:05:25.759> about<00:05:26.000> 15<00:05:26.400> 000<00:05:26.720> times<00:05:27.199> the

her pay award is about 15 000 times the

her pay award is about 15 000 times the median<00:05:27.759> pay<00:05:28.000> for<00:05:28.160> full-time<00:05:28.560> work<00:05:28.880> in<00:05:28.960> the<00:05:29.039> uk

median pay for full-time work in the uk

median pay for full-time work in the uk that<00:05:29.840> would<00:05:30.000> be<00:05:30.160> ridiculous<00:05:30.800> indeed<00:05:31.280> but<00:05:31.440> but

that would be ridiculous indeed but but

that would be ridiculous indeed but but leaving<00:05:32.000> her<00:05:32.240> salary<00:05:32.720> aside<00:05:33.120> because<00:05:33.440> you

leaving her salary aside because you

leaving her salary aside because you know<00:05:33.680> i<00:05:33.759> think<00:05:33.919> gary's<00:05:34.320> gone<00:05:34.479> into<00:05:34.720> it<00:05:34.880> in

know i think gary's gone into it in

know i think gary's gone into it in detail<00:05:35.360> as<00:05:35.520> has

detail as has

detail as has annabelle<00:05:36.560> just<00:05:36.800> the<00:05:36.960> idea<00:05:37.440> that<00:05:37.759> you<00:05:37.840> know

annabelle just the idea that you know

annabelle just the idea that you know she's<00:05:38.160> not<00:05:38.320> the<00:05:38.479> only<00:05:38.800> person<00:05:39.199> who's<00:05:39.360> been

she's not the only person who's been

she's not the only person who's been paid

paid

paid you<00:05:40.240> know<00:05:41.039> significantly<00:05:42.160> more<00:05:42.960> uh

you know significantly more uh

you know significantly more uh than<00:05:43.680> you<00:05:43.759> know<00:05:43.919> the<00:05:44.080> vast<00:05:44.320> majority<00:05:44.720> of<00:05:44.800> the

than you know the vast majority of the

than you know the vast majority of the population<00:05:45.520> 99

population 99

population 99 of<00:05:46.720> the<00:05:46.800> population<00:05:47.440> actually<00:05:48.240> yeah<00:05:48.560> exactly

of the population actually yeah exactly

of the population actually yeah exactly and<00:05:49.199> it's<00:05:49.360> a<00:05:49.440> good<00:05:49.600> point<00:05:49.840> actually

and it's a good point actually

and it's a good point actually i<00:05:50.400> really<00:05:51.120> um<00:05:51.680> don't<00:05:51.919> think<00:05:52.160> it's<00:05:53.120> uh

i really um don't think it's uh

i really um don't think it's uh worth<00:05:54.000> attacking<00:05:54.479> individuals<00:05:55.039> because<00:05:55.360> this

worth attacking individuals because this

worth attacking individuals because this is<00:05:55.680> about<00:05:55.919> a<00:05:56.080> wider

is about a wider

is about a wider structural<00:05:57.360> problem<00:05:57.680> of<00:05:57.759> how<00:05:58.000> wealth<00:05:58.319> is

structural problem of how wealth is

structural problem of how wealth is distributed<00:05:58.960> within<00:05:59.280> companies<00:05:59.840> and<00:05:59.919> with

distributed within companies and with

distributed within companies and with in<00:06:00.560> society<00:06:01.120> more<00:06:01.280> widely<00:06:02.240> um<00:06:03.120> yeah<00:06:03.360> so

in society more widely um yeah so

in society more widely um yeah so moving<00:06:04.000> away<00:06:04.240> from<00:06:04.479> her<00:06:04.720> i<00:06:04.880> think<00:06:05.440> there's<00:06:05.680> a

moving away from her i think there's a

moving away from her i think there's a commonly<00:06:06.080> made<00:06:06.400> argument<00:06:06.880> um

commonly made argument um

commonly made argument um that<00:06:07.520> annabelle<00:06:07.919> made<00:06:08.160> which<00:06:08.560> is<00:06:08.720> that<00:06:08.880> it's

that annabelle made which is that it's

that annabelle made which is that it's fine<00:06:09.280> for<00:06:09.440> ceos<00:06:09.919> to<00:06:10.000> be<00:06:10.080> paid<00:06:10.319> a<00:06:10.400> huge<00:06:10.639> amount

fine for ceos to be paid a huge amount

fine for ceos to be paid a huge amount because<00:06:11.199> they're<00:06:11.360> responsible<00:06:11.919> for<00:06:12.080> creating

because they're responsible for creating

because they're responsible for creating a<00:06:12.400> huge<00:06:12.639> amount<00:06:12.880> of<00:06:13.039> wealth

a huge amount of wealth

a huge amount of wealth um<00:06:14.720> but<00:06:14.960> that's<00:06:15.199> a<00:06:15.280> myth<00:06:15.759> um<00:06:16.240> firstly<00:06:16.639> because

um but that's a myth um firstly because

um but that's a myth um firstly because wealth<00:06:17.600> creation<00:06:17.919> is<00:06:18.080> collective<00:06:18.639> so<00:06:18.960> ceos

wealth creation is collective so ceos

wealth creation is collective so ceos rely<00:06:19.919> on

rely on

rely on the<00:06:20.720> workers<00:06:21.120> who<00:06:21.199> work<00:06:21.440> for<00:06:21.520> their<00:06:21.759> companies

the workers who work for their companies

the workers who work for their companies they<00:06:22.319> rely<00:06:22.639> on<00:06:22.800> public<00:06:23.120> spending

they rely on public spending

they rely on public spending on<00:06:23.759> the<00:06:23.919> education<00:06:24.479> and<00:06:24.560> healthcare<00:06:25.039> systems

on the education and healthcare systems

on the education and healthcare systems that<00:06:26.000> ensure<00:06:26.400> that<00:06:26.560> they<00:06:26.720> have<00:06:26.880> a<00:06:26.960> skilled<00:06:27.360> and

that ensure that they have a skilled and

that ensure that they have a skilled and educated<00:06:28.000> workforce<00:06:28.479> to<00:06:28.639> draw<00:06:28.960> on

educated workforce to draw on

educated workforce to draw on and<00:06:29.520> they<00:06:29.680> also<00:06:29.840> rely<00:06:30.160> on<00:06:30.479> transport

and they also rely on transport

and they also rely on transport infrastructure<00:06:31.440> for<00:06:31.600> example<00:06:31.919> that<00:06:32.080> moves

infrastructure for example that moves

infrastructure for example that moves their<00:06:32.479> products<00:06:32.840> around

their products around

their products around um<00:06:34.960> and<00:06:35.840> i'd<00:06:36.080> say<00:06:36.319> also<00:06:36.960> it's<00:06:37.120> a<00:06:37.199> myth<00:06:37.440> that<00:06:37.600> the

um and i'd say also it's a myth that the

um and i'd say also it's a myth that the wealthy<00:06:38.160> will<00:06:38.400> create

wealthy will create

wealthy will create value<00:06:39.199> by<00:06:39.440> investing<00:06:39.840> their<00:06:40.080> wealth<00:06:40.560> um<00:06:40.880> and

value by investing their wealth um and

value by investing their wealth um and that<00:06:41.440> therefore<00:06:41.919> society<00:06:42.400> benefits<00:06:42.880> from

that therefore society benefits from

that therefore society benefits from wealthy<00:06:43.440> people

wealthy people

wealthy people because<00:06:44.400> actually<00:06:44.720> many<00:06:44.960> of<00:06:45.039> the<00:06:45.120> capital

because actually many of the capital

because actually many of the capital gains<00:06:45.919> made<00:06:46.319> by<00:06:46.479> the<00:06:46.639> wealthy<00:06:47.039> today<00:06:47.440> are<00:06:47.680> from

gains made by the wealthy today are from

gains made by the wealthy today are from extracting<00:06:49.039> value<00:06:49.360> rather<00:06:49.599> than<00:06:49.840> creating

extracting value rather than creating

extracting value rather than creating value<00:06:50.639> so<00:06:50.800> the<00:06:50.960> wealthy<00:06:51.360> overwhelmingly

value so the wealthy overwhelmingly

value so the wealthy overwhelmingly put<00:06:52.479> their<00:06:52.639> money<00:06:52.880> into<00:06:53.120> unproductive<00:06:53.759> and

put their money into unproductive and

put their money into unproductive and speculative<00:06:54.479> investments<00:06:54.960> such<00:06:55.199> as<00:06:55.360> property

speculative investments such as property

speculative investments such as property for<00:06:55.919> example<00:06:56.400> which

for example which

for example which may<00:06:57.199> generate<00:06:57.599> high<00:06:57.840> returns<00:06:58.240> for<00:06:58.400> them<00:06:58.639> as

may generate high returns for them as

may generate high returns for them as the<00:06:58.880> investable<00:06:59.440> which<00:06:59.680> don't<00:07:00.000> expand<00:07:00.400> the

the investable which don't expand the

the investable which don't expand the productive<00:07:00.960> potential<00:07:01.520> of<00:07:01.680> the<00:07:01.759> economy

productive potential of the economy

productive potential of the economy and<00:07:02.880> the<00:07:03.039> same<00:07:03.280> applies<00:07:03.759> to<00:07:03.919> how<00:07:04.639> sorry

and the same applies to how sorry

and the same applies to how sorry go<00:07:06.000> ahead<00:07:07.039> the<00:07:07.120> same<00:07:07.360> applies<00:07:07.680> to<00:07:07.759> how<00:07:07.919> most

go ahead the same applies to how most

go ahead the same applies to how most business<00:07:08.560> leaders

business leaders

business leaders are<00:07:09.199> rewarded<00:07:09.840> because<00:07:10.160> executives<00:07:10.720> pay<00:07:11.440> an

are rewarded because executives pay an

are rewarded because executives pay an increasingly<00:07:12.240> tied<00:07:12.560> share<00:07:12.880> price

increasingly tied share price

increasingly tied share price um<00:07:15.039> executives<00:07:15.520> are<00:07:15.680> rewarded<00:07:16.000> with<00:07:16.160> the

um executives are rewarded with the

um executives are rewarded with the option<00:07:16.560> to<00:07:16.720> buy

option to buy

option to buy shares<00:07:17.360> which<00:07:17.520> means<00:07:17.840> that<00:07:18.000> ceos<00:07:18.479> have<00:07:18.639> a<00:07:18.720> very

shares which means that ceos have a very

shares which means that ceos have a very direct<00:07:19.360> incentive

direct incentive

direct incentive to<00:07:20.240> increase<00:07:20.560> the<00:07:20.720> share<00:07:21.039> price<00:07:21.360> and<00:07:22.000> this

to increase the share price and this

to increase the share price and this frequently<00:07:22.720> results<00:07:23.120> in

frequently results in

frequently results in quite<00:07:23.599> strange<00:07:24.000> practices<00:07:24.479> such<00:07:24.720> as<00:07:24.800> share

quite strange practices such as share

quite strange practices such as share buy<00:07:25.360> back<00:07:25.520> to<00:07:25.759> their<00:07:25.840> companies<00:07:26.240> we<00:07:26.400> use<00:07:26.560> their

buy back to their companies we use their

buy back to their companies we use their profits<00:07:27.199> to<00:07:27.280> buy<00:07:27.520> back<00:07:27.759> their<00:07:28.000> own<00:07:28.160> shares<00:07:28.560> and

profits to buy back their own shares and

profits to buy back their own shares and artificially

artificially

artificially inflate<00:07:30.240> the<00:07:30.319> share<00:07:30.560> price<00:07:30.880> and<00:07:30.960> therefore

inflate the share price and therefore

inflate the share price and therefore their<00:07:31.599> own<00:07:31.759> salaries

their own salaries

their own salaries um<00:07:33.599> so<00:07:33.759> they'd<00:07:34.000> actually<00:07:34.319> say<00:07:34.560> that<00:07:34.800> the

um so they'd actually say that the

um so they'd actually say that the wealthy<00:07:35.360> aren't<00:07:35.599> necessarily<00:07:36.240> creating

wealthy aren't necessarily creating

wealthy aren't necessarily creating value<00:07:36.960> for<00:07:37.039> economies<00:07:37.599> and<00:07:37.759> for<00:07:37.919> the<00:07:38.000> economy

value for economies and for the economy

value for economies and for the economy and<00:07:38.479> towards<00:07:38.720> society<00:07:39.360> and

and towards society and

and towards society and indeed<00:07:40.400> yeah<00:07:41.919> thank<00:07:42.400> you<00:07:42.560> thank<00:07:42.800> you<00:07:42.960> for<00:07:43.120> that

indeed yeah thank you thank you for that

indeed yeah thank you thank you for that i<00:07:44.000> mean<00:07:44.479> alouette<00:07:45.039> has<00:07:45.520> has<00:07:45.680> written<00:07:46.000> in<00:07:46.080> has

i mean alouette has has written in has

i mean alouette has has written in has tweeted<00:07:46.639> me<00:07:46.879> um

tweeted me um

tweeted me um and<00:07:47.360> i<00:07:47.759> as<00:07:47.919> i<00:07:48.000> said<00:07:48.319> he<00:07:48.479> wanted<00:07:48.720> to<00:07:48.800> take<00:07:48.960> it

and i as i said he wanted to take it

and i as i said he wanted to take it away<00:07:49.280> from<00:07:49.520> denise<00:07:49.840> coats<00:07:50.080> she<00:07:50.240> just<00:07:50.400> happens

away from denise coats she just happens

away from denise coats she just happens to<00:07:50.960> offer<00:07:51.199> a<00:07:51.280> very<00:07:51.520> good<00:07:51.680> example<00:07:52.080> at<00:07:52.160> the

to offer a very good example at the

to offer a very good example at the moment<00:07:52.479> but

moment but

moment but aloe<00:07:53.440> has<00:07:53.840> tweeted<00:07:54.240> me<00:07:54.400> saying<00:07:54.800> 80<00:07:55.520> personal

aloe has tweeted me saying 80 personal

aloe has tweeted me saying 80 personal income<00:07:56.479> tax<00:07:56.720> denise<00:07:57.199> coates<00:07:57.440> brought<00:07:57.680> in<00:07:57.919> 380

income tax denise coates brought in 380

income tax denise coates brought in 380 million

million

million in<00:07:59.520> taxes<00:08:00.000> didn't<00:08:00.319> she<00:08:00.720> and<00:08:00.960> gary<00:08:01.280> that<00:08:01.440> there

in taxes didn't she and gary that there

in taxes didn't she and gary that there is<00:08:01.840> that<00:08:02.080> and<00:08:02.240> also<00:08:02.479> the<00:08:02.560> fact<00:08:02.800> that<00:08:02.960> doesn't

is that and also the fact that doesn't

is that and also the fact that doesn't um<00:08:03.680> get

um get

um get mentioned<00:08:04.479> very<00:08:04.720> often<00:08:05.039> in<00:08:05.120> reports<00:08:05.520> of<00:08:05.680> of

mentioned very often in reports of of

mentioned very often in reports of of what<00:08:05.919> denise<00:08:06.319> coates<00:08:06.639> earned<00:08:06.960> which<00:08:07.120> is<00:08:07.280> that

what denise coates earned which is that

what denise coates earned which is that um<00:08:07.919> the<00:08:08.080> company<00:08:08.560> also<00:08:08.800> paid<00:08:09.120> 85<00:08:09.840> million<00:08:10.560> into

um the company also paid 85 million into

um the company also paid 85 million into her

her

her charitable<00:08:12.160> foundation<00:08:13.120> so<00:08:13.599> can<00:08:13.840> we<00:08:14.080> rely

charitable foundation so can we rely

charitable foundation so can we rely uh<00:08:15.199> when<00:08:15.440> people<00:08:15.759> get<00:08:16.400> super<00:08:16.720> rich<00:08:17.039> and<00:08:17.120> make<00:08:17.280> a

uh when people get super rich and make a

uh when people get super rich and make a lot<00:08:17.440> of<00:08:17.520> money

lot of money

lot of money can<00:08:18.160> we<00:08:18.400> rely<00:08:18.960> on<00:08:19.440> the<00:08:19.680> the<00:08:19.919> tax<00:08:20.319> that<00:08:20.479> they<00:08:20.720> pay

can we rely on the the tax that they pay

can we rely on the the tax that they pay and<00:08:22.080> uh<00:08:22.319> their<00:08:22.560> philanth<00:08:23.199> their<00:08:23.440> philanthropy

and uh their philanth their philanthropy

and uh their philanth their philanthropy or<00:08:24.319> their<00:08:24.639> tendency<00:08:25.120> toward<00:08:25.440> philanthropy

or their tendency toward philanthropy

or their tendency toward philanthropy in<00:08:26.160> order<00:08:26.400> to<00:08:26.560> level<00:08:26.800> things<00:08:27.120> out<00:08:28.720> you<00:08:28.879> know

in order to level things out you know

in order to level things out you know what<00:08:29.120> mariella<00:08:29.599> i<00:08:29.680> really<00:08:30.000> really<00:08:30.240> wish<00:08:30.479> that

what mariella i really really wish that

what mariella i really really wish that we<00:08:30.800> could<00:08:31.039> rely<00:08:31.440> on<00:08:31.599> the<00:08:31.759> taxes<00:08:32.080> that<00:08:32.159> they

we could rely on the taxes that they

we could rely on the taxes that they paid

paid

paid and<00:08:32.719> i<00:08:32.880> really<00:08:33.039> wish<00:08:33.200> that<00:08:33.360> they<00:08:33.519> all<00:08:33.839> did<00:08:34.080> pay

and i really wish that they all did pay

and i really wish that they all did pay their<00:08:34.399> taxes<00:08:34.800> but<00:08:34.959> unfortunately<00:08:35.440> if<00:08:35.599> we<00:08:35.680> look

their taxes but unfortunately if we look

their taxes but unfortunately if we look at<00:08:36.080> the<00:08:36.240> very<00:08:36.399> wealthiest<00:08:36.800> people<00:08:36.959> in<00:08:37.039> society

at the very wealthiest people in society

at the very wealthiest people in society and<00:08:38.000> then<00:08:38.080> we<00:08:38.240> look<00:08:38.320> at<00:08:38.399> how<00:08:38.560> much<00:08:38.800> taxes<00:08:39.120> they

and then we look at how much taxes they

and then we look at how much taxes they paid<00:08:39.440> in<00:08:39.519> the<00:08:39.599> cases<00:08:39.839> where<00:08:40.000> we<00:08:40.080> can<00:08:40.240> see<00:08:40.399> that

paid in the cases where we can see that

paid in the cases where we can see that they<00:08:41.200> often<00:08:41.440> pay<00:08:41.760> very<00:08:42.080> very<00:08:42.320> low<00:08:42.479> percentage

they often pay very very low percentage

they often pay very very low percentage of<00:08:42.959> tax<00:08:43.200> overall<00:08:43.519> compared<00:08:43.760> to<00:08:43.839> their<00:08:44.080> income

of tax overall compared to their income

of tax overall compared to their income much<00:08:44.560> less<00:08:44.800> than

much less than

much less than you<00:08:45.440> or<00:08:45.600> i<00:08:45.839> or<00:08:46.080> you<00:08:46.160> know<00:08:46.399> often<00:08:46.640> much<00:08:46.800> less

you or i or you know often much less

you or i or you know often much less than<00:08:47.839> lowly<00:08:48.160> paid<00:08:48.320> people<00:08:48.480> such<00:08:48.720> as<00:08:48.800> cleaners

than lowly paid people such as cleaners

than lowly paid people such as cleaners or<00:08:49.279> nurses<00:08:49.600> they<00:08:49.760> end<00:08:49.839> up<00:08:49.920> paying<00:08:50.240> very<00:08:50.399> very

or nurses they end up paying very very

or nurses they end up paying very very low<00:08:50.720> rates<00:08:50.959> of<00:08:51.040> tax<00:08:51.360> um

low rates of tax um

low rates of tax um philanthropy<00:08:52.480> is<00:08:52.560> obviously<00:08:52.880> fantastic<00:08:53.360> yo<00:08:53.680> i

philanthropy is obviously fantastic yo i

philanthropy is obviously fantastic yo i say<00:08:54.399> congratulations<00:08:55.120> to<00:08:55.200> everybody<00:08:55.519> who's

say congratulations to everybody who's

say congratulations to everybody who's made<00:08:55.839> enough<00:08:56.080> money<00:08:56.240> they<00:08:56.399> can<00:08:56.480> give<00:08:56.640> money

made enough money they can give money

made enough money they can give money to<00:08:57.200> philanthropy<00:08:57.839> to<00:08:58.000> charity<00:08:58.720> um<00:08:59.120> but<00:08:59.279> the

to philanthropy to charity um but the

to philanthropy to charity um but the fact<00:08:59.600> is<00:08:59.839> if<00:08:59.920> we<00:09:00.080> try<00:09:00.240> and<00:09:00.399> rely

fact is if we try and rely

fact is if we try and rely on<00:09:01.440> philanthropy<00:09:02.320> to<00:09:02.480> fix<00:09:02.720> our<00:09:02.880> broken

on philanthropy to fix our broken

on philanthropy to fix our broken economy<00:09:03.680> rather<00:09:03.920> than<00:09:04.160> a<00:09:04.320> fair<00:09:04.560> tax<00:09:04.720> system

economy rather than a fair tax system

economy rather than a fair tax system that<00:09:05.200> works

that works

that works it's<00:09:06.080> certainly<00:09:06.320> not<00:09:06.480> going<00:09:06.560> to<00:09:06.640> work<00:09:06.880> we'll

it's certainly not going to work we'll

it's certainly not going to work we'll see<00:09:07.120> a<00:09:07.200> condition<00:09:07.839> of<00:09:08.000> what<00:09:08.160> we've<00:09:08.320> seen<00:09:08.560> up

see a condition of what we've seen up

see a condition of what we've seen up until<00:09:08.880> now

until now

until now which<00:09:09.600> is<00:09:09.839> more<00:09:10.080> and<00:09:10.160> more<00:09:10.320> money<00:09:10.480> flowing<00:09:10.720> to

which is more and more money flowing to

which is more and more money flowing to the<00:09:10.880> richest<00:09:11.279> while<00:09:11.519> ordinary<00:09:12.080> hard-working

the richest while ordinary hard-working

the richest while ordinary hard-working families<00:09:13.120> can't<00:09:13.360> afford<00:09:13.600> to<00:09:13.680> buy<00:09:13.839> houses

families can't afford to buy houses

families can't afford to buy houses annabelle<00:09:15.440> that<00:09:15.680> is<00:09:16.320> the<00:09:16.560> problem<00:09:17.120> isn't<00:09:17.440> it

annabelle that is the problem isn't it

annabelle that is the problem isn't it that<00:09:17.760> the<00:09:18.000> tax<00:09:18.320> system

that the tax system

that the tax system doesn't<00:09:19.600> really<00:09:20.080> seem<00:09:20.880> to<00:09:21.120> be<00:09:21.600> fair

doesn't really seem to be fair

doesn't really seem to be fair it<00:09:22.160> doesn't<00:09:22.480> seem<00:09:22.800> to<00:09:22.959> level<00:09:23.279> out<00:09:23.519> and<00:09:23.680> it<00:09:23.760> does

it doesn't seem to level out and it does

it doesn't seem to level out and it does seem<00:09:24.240> that<00:09:24.399> the<00:09:24.640> super<00:09:25.040> rich

seem that the super rich

seem that the super rich end<00:09:25.839> up<00:09:26.000> paying<00:09:26.720> a<00:09:27.040> fraction<00:09:27.839> of<00:09:28.000> what<00:09:28.240> the

end up paying a fraction of what the

end up paying a fraction of what the rest<00:09:28.640> of<00:09:28.800> us<00:09:29.040> pay

rest of us pay

rest of us pay out<00:09:30.080> of<00:09:30.240> our<00:09:30.560> you<00:09:30.640> know<00:09:30.880> monthly<00:09:31.360> salaries<00:09:31.839> or

out of our you know monthly salaries or

out of our you know monthly salaries or whatever<00:09:32.399> and<00:09:32.560> that

whatever and that

whatever and that in<00:09:33.360> a<00:09:33.440> way<00:09:33.760> is<00:09:34.000> part<00:09:34.240> of<00:09:34.399> what<00:09:34.720> fuels<00:09:35.360> the<00:09:35.360> the

in a way is part of what fuels the the

in a way is part of what fuels the the discord<00:09:36.560> and<00:09:36.640> the<00:09:36.800> resentment

discord and the resentment

discord and the resentment and<00:09:38.080> the<00:09:38.240> sense<00:09:38.560> that<00:09:38.800> it<00:09:38.959> is<00:09:39.360> entirely

and the sense that it is entirely

and the sense that it is entirely unequal

well<00:09:43.040> i<00:09:43.200> mean<00:09:43.600> certainly<00:09:44.080> our<00:09:44.399> that<00:09:44.800> our<00:09:45.040> tax

well i mean certainly our that our tax

well i mean certainly our that our tax system

system

system requires<00:09:47.120> um<00:09:47.839> fundamental<00:09:48.640> change<00:09:49.279> um<00:09:49.600> it

requires um fundamental change um it

requires um fundamental change um it needs<00:09:50.080> to<00:09:50.240> be

needs to be

needs to be massively<00:09:51.440> simplified<00:09:52.160> and<00:09:52.320> at<00:09:52.480> the<00:09:52.560> moment

massively simplified and at the moment

massively simplified and at the moment there<00:09:53.200> are<00:09:53.440> areas<00:09:53.920> um

there are areas um

there are areas um yes<00:09:54.560> where<00:09:54.800> it<00:09:54.880> works<00:09:55.279> for<00:09:55.839> the<00:09:56.000> super<00:09:56.480> wealthy

yes where it works for the super wealthy

yes where it works for the super wealthy and<00:09:57.360> where

and where

and where it<00:09:58.320> does<00:09:58.640> not<00:09:58.800> work<00:09:59.120> for<00:09:59.839> um<00:10:00.240> those<00:10:00.640> who<00:10:00.880> are

it does not work for um those who are

it does not work for um those who are among<00:10:01.279> the<00:10:01.440> poorest<00:10:01.760> in<00:10:01.920> our<00:10:02.079> society<00:10:02.640> so<00:10:02.880> i

among the poorest in our society so i

among the poorest in our society so i absolutely<00:10:03.600> would<00:10:03.760> support<00:10:04.079> the<00:10:04.240> notion<00:10:04.560> of

absolutely would support the notion of

absolutely would support the notion of tax<00:10:05.279> reform<00:10:05.680> i<00:10:05.760> think<00:10:05.920> there<00:10:06.000> are<00:10:06.160> just<00:10:06.320> a<00:10:06.399> few

tax reform i think there are just a few

tax reform i think there are just a few interesting<00:10:07.120> points<00:10:07.440> made<00:10:08.000> earlier<00:10:08.480> in<00:10:08.560> the

interesting points made earlier in the

interesting points made earlier in the discussion<00:10:09.279> i'd<00:10:09.360> like<00:10:09.519> to<00:10:09.680> come<00:10:09.839> back<00:10:10.079> on

discussion i'd like to come back on

discussion i'd like to come back on first<00:10:10.720> we<00:10:10.880> talked<00:10:11.120> a<00:10:11.200> little<00:10:11.360> bit<00:10:11.519> about

first we talked a little bit about

first we talked a little bit about wealth<00:10:12.480> inequality

wealth inequality

wealth inequality well<00:10:14.079> that<00:10:14.320> has<00:10:14.480> actually<00:10:14.800> been<00:10:15.040> pretty<00:10:15.440> much

well that has actually been pretty much

well that has actually been pretty much constant<00:10:16.240> for

constant for

constant for many<00:10:17.440> decades<00:10:18.160> when<00:10:18.399> it<00:10:18.480> comes<00:10:18.880> to<00:10:19.279> income

many decades when it comes to income

many decades when it comes to income inequality

inequality

inequality there<00:10:21.120> was<00:10:21.279> a<00:10:21.360> sharp<00:10:21.680> rise<00:10:22.000> in<00:10:22.079> the<00:10:22.160> junior

there was a sharp rise in the junior

there was a sharp rise in the junior coefficient<00:10:23.040> in<00:10:23.120> the<00:10:23.480> 1980s<00:10:24.560> because<00:10:24.959> we

coefficient in the 1980s because we

coefficient in the 1980s because we moved<00:10:25.600> towards<00:10:25.920> an<00:10:26.079> economy<00:10:26.560> where<00:10:27.120> we<00:10:27.360> had

moved towards an economy where we had

moved towards an economy where we had winner<00:10:28.240> takes<00:10:28.480> all<00:10:28.720> income<00:10:29.120> distributions<00:10:29.839> we

winner takes all income distributions we

winner takes all income distributions we moved<00:10:30.480> away<00:10:30.640> from<00:10:30.880> industries<00:10:31.360> like

moved away from industries like

moved away from industries like manufacturing<00:10:32.399> and<00:10:32.959> towards<00:10:33.519> things<00:10:33.760> like

manufacturing and towards things like

manufacturing and towards things like finance<00:10:34.480> and<00:10:34.640> entertainment<00:10:35.200> and<00:10:35.360> leisure

finance and entertainment and leisure

finance and entertainment and leisure where<00:10:35.839> the<00:10:36.000> turnover<00:10:36.480> in<00:10:36.560> top<00:10:36.800> salaries<00:10:37.279> is

where the turnover in top salaries is

where the turnover in top salaries is very<00:10:37.680> high

very high

very high however<00:10:38.959> since<00:10:39.519> the<00:10:39.680> early<00:10:40.079> 1990s<00:10:41.120> we<00:10:41.360> haven't

however since the early 1990s we haven't

however since the early 1990s we haven't seen<00:10:42.880> an<00:10:43.040> increase<00:10:43.440> in<00:10:43.600> income<00:10:43.920> inequality<00:10:44.640> so

seen an increase in income inequality so

seen an increase in income inequality so that's<00:10:45.120> quite<00:10:45.279> a<00:10:45.519> misleading

that's quite a misleading

that's quite a misleading narrative<00:10:46.800> that<00:10:46.959> is<00:10:47.120> pushed<00:10:47.440> into<00:10:47.600> the<00:10:47.680> public

narrative that is pushed into the public

narrative that is pushed into the public domain<00:10:48.399> and<00:10:48.480> is<00:10:48.640> simply

domain and is simply

domain and is simply um<00:10:49.839> inaccurate<00:10:50.720> i've<00:10:51.120> also<00:10:51.519> just<00:10:51.680> come<00:10:51.839> back

um inaccurate i've also just come back

um inaccurate i've also just come back on<00:10:52.160> one<00:10:52.320> of<00:10:52.320> the<00:10:52.399> points<00:10:52.720> made<00:10:52.959> earlier<00:10:53.279> around

on one of the points made earlier around

on one of the points made earlier around this<00:10:54.399> idea<00:10:54.880> that<00:10:55.279> um<00:10:56.079> you<00:10:56.160> know<00:10:56.399> ceos<00:10:57.120> have

this idea that um you know ceos have

this idea that um you know ceos have equity<00:10:58.000> in

equity in

equity in the<00:10:58.640> business<00:10:59.040> and<00:10:59.200> are<00:10:59.279> therefore

the business and are therefore

the business and are therefore incentivized<00:11:01.040> uh<00:11:01.360> to

incentivized uh to

incentivized uh to raise<00:11:02.160> the<00:11:02.320> share<00:11:02.640> price<00:11:03.040> i<00:11:03.200> find<00:11:03.440> it<00:11:03.519> quite

raise the share price i find it quite

raise the share price i find it quite extraordinary<00:11:04.320> that<00:11:04.480> anybody<00:11:04.880> would<00:11:05.120> think

extraordinary that anybody would think

extraordinary that anybody would think that<00:11:05.519> that<00:11:05.760> was

that that was

that that was a<00:11:06.320> bad<00:11:06.800> thing<00:11:07.120> surely<00:11:07.519> we<00:11:07.680> want<00:11:07.920> our<00:11:08.079> ceos<00:11:08.560> to

a bad thing surely we want our ceos to

a bad thing surely we want our ceos to have<00:11:08.800> skin<00:11:09.040> in<00:11:09.120> the<00:11:09.200> game<00:11:09.440> and<00:11:09.519> be

have skin in the game and be

have skin in the game and be invested<00:11:10.399> in<00:11:10.480> the<00:11:10.640> success<00:11:11.040> of<00:11:11.120> the<00:11:11.200> company

invested in the success of the company

invested in the success of the company that<00:11:11.760> they<00:11:11.920> are<00:11:12.399> perhaps<00:11:12.720> on<00:11:12.800> the<00:11:12.880> senior

that they are perhaps on the senior

that they are perhaps on the senior management

management

management team<00:11:14.320> for<00:11:14.640> or<00:11:14.880> indeed<00:11:15.279> running<00:11:16.480> um

team for or indeed running um

team for or indeed running um rachel<00:11:17.440> do<00:11:17.519> you<00:11:17.680> agree<00:11:18.000> about<00:11:18.399> that<00:11:18.720> disparity

rachel do you agree about that disparity

rachel do you agree about that disparity in<00:11:19.600> terms<00:11:20.000> of

in terms of

in terms of of<00:11:20.720> of<00:11:21.120> wealth<00:11:21.519> gain<00:11:22.079> do<00:11:22.399> do<00:11:22.560> you<00:11:22.640> agree<00:11:22.880> that

of of wealth gain do do you agree that

of of wealth gain do do you agree that it<00:11:23.279> hasn't

it hasn't

it hasn't been<00:11:24.240> exacerbated<00:11:25.040> in<00:11:25.200> in<00:11:25.360> recent<00:11:25.600> years<00:11:25.839> and

been exacerbated in in recent years and

been exacerbated in in recent years and do<00:11:26.240> you<00:11:26.320> want<00:11:26.399> to<00:11:26.560> respond<00:11:26.880> to

do you want to respond to

do you want to respond to annabelle's<00:11:27.920> point<00:11:28.560> there<00:11:28.880> about<00:11:29.279> uh<00:11:29.680> ceo's

annabelle's point there about uh ceo's

annabelle's point there about uh ceo's incentivization<00:11:31.760> in<00:11:32.000> enlisted<00:11:32.480> companies

incentivization in enlisted companies

incentivization in enlisted companies yeah<00:11:34.480> well<00:11:34.800> um<00:11:36.240> ceo

yeah well um ceo

yeah well um ceo pay<00:11:38.160> has<00:11:38.959> gone<00:11:39.200> up<00:11:39.600> substantially<00:11:40.399> since

pay has gone up substantially since

pay has gone up substantially since the<00:11:41.120> 1980s<00:11:42.640> um<00:11:43.279> but<00:11:43.440> i<00:11:43.519> mean<00:11:43.680> says<00:11:43.920> the<00:11:44.000> cost<00:11:44.320> of

the 1980s um but i mean says the cost of

the 1980s um but i mean says the cost of living<00:11:44.640> that<00:11:44.800> doesn't<00:11:45.040> really<00:11:45.279> mean<00:11:45.519> anything

living that doesn't really mean anything

living that doesn't really mean anything in<00:11:46.160> in<00:11:46.320> real<00:11:46.560> terms<00:11:46.959> does<00:11:47.200> it

in in real terms does it

in in real terms does it uh<00:11:48.959> yes<00:11:49.279> it<00:11:49.360> does<00:11:49.600> i<00:11:49.680> mean<00:11:50.160> it's<00:11:50.320> gone<00:11:50.480> up<00:11:50.639> a

uh yes it does i mean it's gone up a

uh yes it does i mean it's gone up a huge<00:11:50.959> amount<00:11:51.600> um

huge amount um

huge amount um much<00:11:53.440> more<00:11:53.680> than<00:11:53.839> the<00:11:53.920> cost<00:11:54.160> of<00:11:54.240> living<00:11:54.560> has

much more than the cost of living has

much more than the cost of living has gone<00:11:54.959> up<00:11:55.600> um

gone up um

gone up um so<00:11:59.200> and<00:11:59.440> even

so and even

so and even in<00:11:59.839> percentage<00:12:00.560> terms

yes<00:12:03.680> yeah<00:12:04.399> um<00:12:05.360> and<00:12:05.519> wealth<00:12:05.760> inequality<00:12:06.320> has

yes yeah um and wealth inequality has

yes yeah um and wealth inequality has also<00:12:06.800> increased

also increased

also increased um<00:12:08.079> so<00:12:08.320> i<00:12:08.399> mean<00:12:08.800> there<00:12:08.959> are<00:12:09.040> lots<00:12:09.279> of<00:12:09.360> different

um so i mean there are lots of different

um so i mean there are lots of different ways<00:12:09.920> of<00:12:10.079> measuring<00:12:10.399> this

ways of measuring this

ways of measuring this um<00:12:12.959> so<00:12:14.399> yeah

um so yeah

um so yeah depending<00:12:15.519> on<00:12:15.680> how<00:12:15.839> you<00:12:16.000> measure<00:12:16.320> it<00:12:16.639> um<00:12:17.040> you

depending on how you measure it um you

depending on how you measure it um you can<00:12:17.279> come<00:12:17.519> up<00:12:17.600> with<00:12:17.760> different<00:12:18.079> conclusions

can come up with different conclusions

can come up with different conclusions um<00:12:19.760> but<00:12:21.040> the<00:12:21.519> i<00:12:21.600> mean<00:12:21.760> the<00:12:21.839> high<00:12:22.000> pay<00:12:22.240> center

um but the i mean the high pay center

um but the i mean the high pay center looks<00:12:22.800> at<00:12:23.040> ceo

looks at ceo

looks at ceo compensation<00:12:25.279> and<00:12:25.360> that's<00:12:25.600> gone<00:12:25.839> up<00:12:26.000> hugely

compensation and that's gone up hugely

compensation and that's gone up hugely um<00:12:27.200> so<00:12:27.360> that<00:12:27.519> will<00:12:27.680> obviously<00:12:27.920> have

um so that will obviously have

um so that will obviously have implications<00:12:28.880> for<00:12:29.120> the<00:12:29.279> wealth<00:12:29.600> of<00:12:29.680> those

implications for the wealth of those

implications for the wealth of those individuals<00:12:30.480> as<00:12:30.560> well<00:12:30.720> because<00:12:30.959> obviously

individuals as well because obviously

individuals as well because obviously when<00:12:31.440> you

when you

when you earn<00:12:32.000> more<00:12:32.399> you<00:12:33.360> can<00:12:33.519> therefore<00:12:34.079> invest<00:12:34.560> in

earn more you can therefore invest in

earn more you can therefore invest in in<00:12:34.959> assets<00:12:35.360> and<00:12:35.440> so<00:12:35.680> on<00:12:37.600> and<00:12:37.680> then<00:12:37.920> on<00:12:38.000> the

in assets and so on and then on the

in assets and so on and then on the point<00:12:38.399> about

point about

point about yeah<00:12:39.680> sorry<00:12:40.480> go<00:12:40.639> ahead

yeah sorry go ahead

yeah sorry go ahead um<00:12:42.399> the<00:12:42.560> point<00:12:42.720> about<00:12:43.040> incentives<00:12:44.240> so<00:12:44.959> it

um the point about incentives so it

um the point about incentives so it hasn't<00:12:45.440> always<00:12:45.680> been<00:12:45.920> the<00:12:46.079> case

hasn't always been the case

hasn't always been the case that<00:12:47.040> um<00:12:47.440> ceo<00:12:48.959> pay<00:12:49.279> and<00:12:49.519> executive<00:12:50.000> pay<00:12:50.240> has

that um ceo pay and executive pay has

that um ceo pay and executive pay has been<00:12:50.720> aligned<00:12:51.200> with

been aligned with

been aligned with shareholders<00:12:53.440> and<00:12:53.519> this<00:12:53.760> is<00:12:53.839> actually<00:12:54.079> a

shareholders and this is actually a

shareholders and this is actually a development<00:12:54.720> that<00:12:55.440> happened

development that happened

development that happened around<00:12:56.959> the<00:12:57.120> 80s<00:12:57.839> and

previous<00:13:00.480> to<00:13:00.639> that<00:13:01.279> the<00:13:01.440> company<00:13:01.839> was<00:13:02.079> more

previous to that the company was more

previous to that the company was more seen<00:13:02.720> as

seen as

seen as the<00:13:03.839> purpose<00:13:04.160> of<00:13:04.240> the<00:13:04.399> company<00:13:04.720> was<00:13:04.880> about

the purpose of the company was about

the purpose of the company was about increasing<00:13:05.680> production<00:13:06.639> and

increasing production and

increasing production and long-term<00:13:07.680> investment<00:13:08.399> um<00:13:09.680> whereas<00:13:10.079> there

long-term investment um whereas there

long-term investment um whereas there are

are

are a<00:13:11.200> range<00:13:11.600> of<00:13:11.920> different<00:13:12.320> policy<00:13:13.279> developments

a range of different policy developments

a range of different policy developments that<00:13:14.079> led<00:13:14.399> to

that led to

that led to the<00:13:15.040> purpose<00:13:15.360> of<00:13:15.440> the<00:13:15.519> company<00:13:15.920> being<00:13:16.079> more

the purpose of the company being more

the purpose of the company being more about<00:13:16.560> short-term<00:13:17.040> profit

about short-term profit

about short-term profit and<00:13:19.279> purely<00:13:19.680> about<00:13:19.920> creating<00:13:21.200> sharehol<00:13:21.760> or

and purely about creating sharehol or

and purely about creating sharehol or primarily<00:13:22.639> about<00:13:22.880> creating<00:13:23.279> value<00:13:23.600> for

primarily about creating value for

primarily about creating value for shareholders<00:13:24.399> and<00:13:24.720> okay<00:13:24.959> let<00:13:25.120> me<00:13:25.200> put<00:13:25.360> that

shareholders and okay let me put that

shareholders and okay let me put that together

together

together gary<00:13:27.040> is<00:13:27.120> that<00:13:27.279> something<00:13:27.600> that<00:13:28.000> that<00:13:28.240> you

gary is that something that that you

gary is that something that that you that<00:13:28.720> you<00:13:28.959> agree<00:13:29.360> has<00:13:29.680> happened<00:13:30.079> that<00:13:30.399> change

that you agree has happened that change

that you agree has happened that change since<00:13:31.440> the<00:13:32.839> 1980s

since the 1980s

since the 1980s well<00:13:34.720> i<00:13:34.800> think<00:13:34.959> there's<00:13:35.120> definitely<00:13:35.519> a<00:13:35.600> change

well i think there's definitely a change

well i think there's definitely a change in<00:13:35.920> the<00:13:36.000> way<00:13:36.160> that<00:13:36.320> um<00:13:36.959> companies<00:13:37.440> behave<00:13:37.839> and

in the way that um companies behave and

in the way that um companies behave and um<00:13:38.320> you<00:13:38.480> can<00:13:38.560> definitely<00:13:38.880> see<00:13:39.040> there's<00:13:39.199> a<00:13:39.279> lot

um you can definitely see there's a lot

um you can definitely see there's a lot of<00:13:39.600> pressure<00:13:39.839> to<00:13:39.920> push<00:13:40.160> up<00:13:40.240> share<00:13:40.480> prices<00:13:40.800> but

of pressure to push up share prices but

of pressure to push up share prices but i<00:13:41.040> just<00:13:41.199> want<00:13:41.279> to<00:13:41.360> mention<00:13:41.680> just<00:13:41.839> something

i just want to mention just something

i just want to mention just something quickly<00:13:42.399> on

quickly on

quickly on where<00:13:42.880> the<00:13:42.959> wealth<00:13:43.199> inequality<00:13:43.600> has

where the wealth inequality has

where the wealth inequality has increased<00:13:44.000> because<00:13:44.079> i<00:13:44.160> think<00:13:44.240> this<00:13:44.399> is<00:13:44.560> really

increased because i think this is really

increased because i think this is really really<00:13:44.959> important<00:13:45.360> you<00:13:45.440> know<00:13:45.680> i'm<00:13:45.839> a<00:13:45.920> wealthy

really important you know i'm a wealthy

really important you know i'm a wealthy quality<00:13:46.560> economist<00:13:46.959> i<00:13:47.040> look<00:13:47.199> at<00:13:47.279> this<00:13:47.440> every

quality economist i look at this every

quality economist i look at this every day

day

day i<00:13:48.160> talk<00:13:48.320> to<00:13:48.480> top<00:13:48.639> global<00:13:48.880> experts<00:13:49.279> in<00:13:49.360> this

i talk to top global experts in this

i talk to top global experts in this such<00:13:49.760> as<00:13:49.920> aaron<00:13:50.240> advani<00:13:50.880> at<00:13:50.959> work<00:13:51.279> university

such as aaron advani at work university

such as aaron advani at work university gabriel<00:13:52.000> zuckman<00:13:52.320> at<00:13:52.399> berkeley

gabriel zuckman at berkeley

gabriel zuckman at berkeley and<00:13:53.839> they<00:13:54.079> say<00:13:54.320> that<00:13:54.639> there<00:13:54.800> is<00:13:54.959> no<00:13:55.199> doubt<00:13:55.440> that

and they say that there is no doubt that

and they say that there is no doubt that the<00:13:55.680> share<00:13:55.920> of<00:13:56.000> world<00:13:56.240> held<00:13:56.399> by<00:13:56.560> the<00:13:56.639> super

the share of world held by the super

the share of world held by the super rich<00:13:57.120> and<00:13:57.199> the<00:13:57.279> top<00:13:57.440> note<00:13:57.680> one<00:13:57.839> percent<00:13:58.160> has

rich and the top note one percent has

rich and the top note one percent has massively<00:13:58.639> increased

massively increased

massively increased the<00:13:59.440> reason<00:13:59.760> that<00:13:59.920> people<00:14:00.399> sometimes<00:14:00.880> say

the reason that people sometimes say

the reason that people sometimes say that<00:14:01.199> it<00:14:01.279> hasn't<00:14:01.760> it's<00:14:01.920> because<00:14:02.160> they're

that it hasn't it's because they're

that it hasn't it's because they're looking<00:14:02.560> at<00:14:02.639> data<00:14:02.959> which<00:14:03.120> is<00:14:03.199> coming<00:14:03.440> from

looking at data which is coming from

looking at data which is coming from surveys<00:14:04.160> where<00:14:04.320> they<00:14:04.480> say<00:14:04.639> if<00:14:04.800> you<00:14:04.880> fill<00:14:05.040> in

surveys where they say if you fill in

surveys where they say if you fill in this<00:14:05.199> server

this server

this server we'll<00:14:05.920> give<00:14:06.000> you<00:14:06.079> a<00:14:06.160> 15<00:14:06.560> pound<00:14:06.800> amazon<00:14:07.120> voucher

we'll give you a 15 pound amazon voucher

we'll give you a 15 pound amazon voucher now<00:14:07.839> i<00:14:07.920> don't<00:14:08.079> think<00:14:08.240> you'll<00:14:08.320> be<00:14:08.480> surprised<00:14:08.800> to

now i don't think you'll be surprised to

now i don't think you'll be surprised to find<00:14:09.199> that<00:14:09.279> the<00:14:09.440> super<00:14:09.760> rich

find that the super rich

find that the super rich tend<00:14:10.480> not<00:14:10.639> to<00:14:10.720> fit<00:14:10.880> in<00:14:10.959> these<00:14:11.120> surveys<00:14:11.519> for<00:14:11.600> a

tend not to fit in these surveys for a

tend not to fit in these surveys for a 15<00:14:12.240> amazon<00:14:12.560> voucher<00:14:12.880> so<00:14:13.199> i<00:14:13.360> just<00:14:13.440> want<00:14:13.600> to<00:14:13.680> say

15 amazon voucher so i just want to say

15 amazon voucher so i just want to say i'm<00:14:14.240> talking<00:14:14.560> to<00:14:14.720> the<00:14:14.800> top<00:14:15.199> economist<00:14:15.760> every

i'm talking to the top economist every

i'm talking to the top economist every day<00:14:16.000> about<00:14:16.160> whether<00:14:16.320> wealth<00:14:16.480> inequality<00:14:16.959> is

day about whether wealth inequality is

day about whether wealth inequality is increasing

increasing

increasing they're<00:14:18.000> confident<00:14:18.399> that<00:14:18.560> it<00:14:18.639> definitely<00:14:19.040> is

they're confident that it definitely is

they're confident that it definitely is annabelle

annabelle

annabelle um<00:14:23.680> yeah<00:14:23.920> okay<00:14:24.160> well<00:14:24.399> i<00:14:24.560> mean<00:14:25.040> i<00:14:25.120> don't<00:14:25.279> think

um yeah okay well i mean i don't think

um yeah okay well i mean i don't think that<00:14:25.519> we're<00:14:25.760> necessarily<00:14:26.240> going<00:14:26.560> to

that we're necessarily going to

that we're necessarily going to um<00:14:27.279> ci<00:14:28.399> to<00:14:28.639> either<00:14:29.040> i<00:14:29.199> suppose<00:14:29.600> i<00:14:29.680> would<00:14:29.839> just

um ci to either i suppose i would just

um ci to either i suppose i would just but<00:14:30.240> but<00:14:30.480> surely<00:14:30.800> this<00:14:30.959> is<00:14:31.040> a<00:14:31.199> factual

but but surely this is a factual

but but surely this is a factual situation

situation

situation well<00:14:33.760> i<00:14:33.839> i<00:14:34.000> mean<00:14:34.720> you<00:14:34.880> know<00:14:35.120> i've<00:14:35.440> read<00:14:35.680> plenty

well i i mean you know i've read plenty

well i i mean you know i've read plenty of<00:14:36.240> research<00:14:36.480> from<00:14:36.720> economists<00:14:37.199> that<00:14:37.440> suggest

of research from economists that suggest

of research from economists that suggest that<00:14:37.920> the<00:14:38.079> genie<00:14:38.399> coefficient<00:14:38.959> hasn't

that the genie coefficient hasn't

that the genie coefficient hasn't uh<00:14:40.160> what<00:14:40.320> is<00:14:40.480> the<00:14:40.639> gina<00:14:41.040> coefficient<00:14:42.240> what<00:14:42.839> is

uh what is the gina coefficient what is

uh what is the gina coefficient what is inequality<00:14:44.639> haven't<00:14:45.279> changed<00:14:45.680> over<00:14:45.839> the<00:14:45.920> last

inequality haven't changed over the last

inequality haven't changed over the last uh<00:14:46.959> 30<00:14:47.279> years

uh 30 years

uh 30 years longer<00:14:48.079> for<00:14:48.399> wealth<00:14:48.800> uh<00:14:49.040> inequality<00:14:50.000> but<00:14:50.399> you

longer for wealth uh inequality but you

longer for wealth uh inequality but you know<00:14:50.639> rather<00:14:50.880> than<00:14:51.040> squabbling<00:14:51.519> over<00:14:51.680> that<00:14:51.839> i

know rather than squabbling over that i

know rather than squabbling over that i suppose<00:14:52.240> i<00:14:52.320> would<00:14:52.480> just

suppose i would just

suppose i would just pose<00:14:53.920> another<00:14:54.320> question<00:14:55.600> to<00:14:55.760> your<00:14:55.920> other

pose another question to your other

pose another question to your other panelists<00:14:56.560> which<00:14:56.800> is

panelists which is

panelists which is you<00:14:57.440> know<00:14:58.000> let's<00:14:58.320> let's<00:14:58.560> say<00:14:58.800> that<00:14:59.040> in<00:14:59.519> in

you know let's let's say that in in

you know let's let's say that in in common<00:15:00.079> wealth<00:15:00.320> and<00:15:00.399> equality

common wealth and equality

common wealth and equality the<00:15:01.440> chasm<00:15:01.920> is<00:15:02.079> widening<00:15:02.800> on<00:15:02.959> a<00:15:03.040> fast<00:15:03.360> scale

the chasm is widening on a fast scale

the chasm is widening on a fast scale one<00:15:04.000> year<00:15:04.240> from<00:15:04.399> one<00:15:04.560> year<00:15:04.720> to<00:15:04.880> the<00:15:04.959> next

one year from one year to the next

one year from one year to the next but<00:15:06.160> let's<00:15:06.399> also<00:15:06.800> say<00:15:07.040> that<00:15:07.440> everybody<00:15:08.079> is

but let's also say that everybody is

but let's also say that everybody is getting<00:15:08.560> wealthier<00:15:09.040> so<00:15:09.199> we're<00:15:09.519> able<00:15:09.839> to

getting wealthier so we're able to

getting wealthier so we're able to improve<00:15:10.320> the<00:15:10.399> living<00:15:10.639> standards<00:15:10.959> to<00:15:11.120> the

improve the living standards to the

improve the living standards to the poorest<00:15:11.600> in<00:15:11.680> society<00:15:12.240> even<00:15:12.560> if<00:15:12.720> the

poorest in society even if the

poorest in society even if the top<00:15:13.519> not<00:15:13.920> not<00:15:14.160> one<00:15:14.320> percent<00:15:15.120> are<00:15:15.279> getting

top not not one percent are getting

top not not one percent are getting wealthy<00:15:16.720> of<00:15:16.880> welfare<00:15:17.279> that's<00:15:17.600> the<00:15:17.760> question

wealthy of welfare that's the question

wealthy of welfare that's the question isn't<00:15:18.480> it

isn't it

isn't it that's<00:15:20.000> the<00:15:20.240> question<00:15:20.639> isn't<00:15:20.880> it<00:15:21.040> is<00:15:21.360> is<00:15:21.839> is<00:15:22.240> is

that's the question isn't it is is is is

that's the question isn't it is is is is everyone<00:15:23.040> yes<00:15:23.279> but

everyone yes but

everyone yes but is<00:15:23.920> everyone<00:15:24.320> getting<00:15:24.720> wealthier<00:15:25.120> i<00:15:25.199> mean

is everyone getting wealthier i mean

is everyone getting wealthier i mean i've<00:15:25.440> just<00:15:25.600> been<00:15:25.839> talking<00:15:26.320> to<00:15:26.480> someone

i've just been talking to someone

i've just been talking to someone coming<00:15:27.440> up<00:15:27.519> with<00:15:27.680> a<00:15:27.920> new<00:15:28.079> commission<00:15:28.480> talking

coming up with a new commission talking

coming up with a new commission talking about<00:15:29.199> food<00:15:29.519> poverty<00:15:29.920> in<00:15:30.000> the<00:15:30.079> uk<00:15:30.399> with<00:15:30.560> five

about food poverty in the uk with five

about food poverty in the uk with five point<00:15:31.040> million

point million

point million uh<00:15:32.079> 5.9<00:15:32.720> million<00:15:33.120> adults<00:15:33.920> enduring<00:15:34.480> food

uh 5.9 million adults enduring food

uh 5.9 million adults enduring food poverty<00:15:35.120> and<00:15:35.199> 1.7

poverty and 1.7

poverty and 1.7 million<00:15:36.639> children<00:15:37.120> so<00:15:37.360> actually<00:15:37.600> when<00:15:37.759> you

million children so actually when you

million children so actually when you look<00:15:38.079> at<00:15:38.160> the<00:15:38.240> figures<00:15:38.959> it<00:15:39.120> doesn't<00:15:39.440> suggest

look at the figures it doesn't suggest

look at the figures it doesn't suggest that<00:15:40.079> that<00:15:40.320> people<00:15:40.639> that<00:15:40.800> society

that that people that society

that that people that society in<00:15:42.000> in<00:15:42.320> general<00:15:43.040> is<00:15:43.279> getting<00:15:43.600> richer<00:15:44.000> i<00:15:44.079> mean

in in general is getting richer i mean

in in general is getting richer i mean gary<00:15:44.639> this<00:15:44.800> is<00:15:44.880> something<00:15:45.120> that<00:15:45.279> you<00:15:45.440> sort<00:15:45.680> of

gary this is something that you sort of

gary this is something that you sort of bet<00:15:46.160> on<00:15:46.399> if<00:15:46.560> i<00:15:46.720> can<00:15:46.880> put<00:15:47.120> it<00:15:47.279> like<00:15:47.519> that<00:15:47.920> i<00:15:48.000> mean

bet on if i can put it like that i mean

bet on if i can put it like that i mean that's<00:15:48.399> how<00:15:48.560> you've<00:15:48.800> made<00:15:49.120> a<00:15:49.199> lot<00:15:49.360> of<00:15:49.440> your

that's how you've made a lot of your

that's how you've made a lot of your money

money

money it's<00:15:50.399> it's<00:15:51.040> quite<00:15:51.360> um<00:15:51.920> in<00:15:52.160> congress<00:15:52.639> in<00:15:52.800> a<00:15:52.880> way

it's it's quite um in congress in a way

it's it's quite um in congress in a way that<00:15:53.440> that<00:15:53.680> you<00:15:53.839> were<00:15:53.920> so<00:15:54.160> committed<00:15:54.720> to

that that you were so committed to

that that you were so committed to leveling<00:15:55.440> up<00:15:55.759> and<00:15:56.000> and<00:15:56.240> to<00:15:56.560> fairness<00:15:57.120> and<00:15:57.279> at

leveling up and and to fairness and at

leveling up and and to fairness and at the<00:15:57.440> same<00:15:57.759> time

the same time

the same time your<00:15:59.360> fortune<00:15:59.839> has<00:16:00.000> been<00:16:00.560> in<00:16:00.800> large<00:16:01.680> been

your fortune has been in large been

your fortune has been in large been based<00:16:02.320> on

based on

based on on<00:16:03.120> working<00:16:03.519> out<00:16:03.680> who's<00:16:03.920> going<00:16:04.079> to<00:16:04.399> whose

on working out who's going to whose

on working out who's going to whose economies<00:16:05.279> are<00:16:05.360> going<00:16:05.519> to<00:16:05.600> collapse

economies are going to collapse

economies are going to collapse yeah<00:16:07.600> you<00:16:07.680> know<00:16:07.839> i<00:16:07.920> didn't<00:16:08.160> come<00:16:08.320> into<00:16:08.480> this

yeah you know i didn't come into this

yeah you know i didn't come into this world<00:16:08.800> wanting<00:16:09.040> to<00:16:09.120> be<00:16:09.199> an<00:16:09.360> inequality

world wanting to be an inequality

world wanting to be an inequality economist<00:16:10.240> no

economist no

economist no i'm<00:16:10.800> from<00:16:10.959> east<00:16:11.120> london<00:16:11.440> i<00:16:11.519> come<00:16:11.600> from<00:16:11.759> a<00:16:11.839> poor

i'm from east london i come from a poor

i'm from east london i come from a poor background<00:16:12.399> i<00:16:12.480> wanted<00:16:12.720> to<00:16:12.800> make<00:16:12.959> money

background i wanted to make money

background i wanted to make money my<00:16:13.920> job<00:16:14.079> was<00:16:14.240> to<00:16:14.320> figure<00:16:14.560> out<00:16:14.639> when<00:16:14.800> the

my job was to figure out when the

my job was to figure out when the economy<00:16:15.279> would<00:16:15.360> recover<00:16:16.240> um<00:16:16.639> the<00:16:16.800> history

economy would recover um the history

economy would recover um the history that<00:16:17.279> is<00:16:17.360> so<00:16:17.519> fascinating<00:16:18.000> because<00:16:18.160> the

that is so fascinating because the

that is so fascinating because the economist<00:16:18.720> predicted<00:16:19.279> every<00:16:19.600> single<00:16:19.839> year

economist predicted every single year

economist predicted every single year since<00:16:20.320> 2008

since 2008

since 2008 that<00:16:21.519> we<00:16:21.600> would<00:16:21.759> recover<00:16:22.079> next<00:16:22.320> year<00:16:22.959> so<00:16:23.199> i<00:16:23.360> had

that we would recover next year so i had

that we would recover next year so i had to<00:16:23.600> understand<00:16:23.920> why<00:16:24.079> the<00:16:24.160> economy<00:16:24.480> is<00:16:24.639> always

to understand why the economy is always

to understand why the economy is always wrong

wrong

wrong i<00:16:25.759> came<00:16:25.920> to<00:16:26.079> the<00:16:26.160> conclusion<00:16:26.639> that<00:16:26.800> it's

i came to the conclusion that it's

i came to the conclusion that it's because<00:16:27.040> they<00:16:27.199> don't<00:16:27.440> understand<00:16:28.160> the

because they don't understand the

because they don't understand the damaging<00:16:28.720> effects<00:16:29.040> of<00:16:29.199> inequality<00:16:29.759> on<00:16:29.920> the

damaging effects of inequality on the

damaging effects of inequality on the economy

economy

economy in<00:16:30.800> my<00:16:30.959> opinion<00:16:31.360> if<00:16:31.519> we<00:16:31.680> don't<00:16:32.160> fix<00:16:32.399> inequality

in my opinion if we don't fix inequality

in my opinion if we don't fix inequality that<00:16:33.120> will<00:16:33.279> mean<00:16:33.440> all<00:16:33.600> of<00:16:33.680> the<00:16:33.759> money<00:16:34.000> goes<00:16:34.160> to

that will mean all of the money goes to

that will mean all of the money goes to the<00:16:34.320> rich<00:16:34.639> who<00:16:34.880> use<00:16:35.040> it<00:16:35.120> to<00:16:35.199> buy<00:16:35.360> house<00:16:35.600> prices

the rich who use it to buy house prices

the rich who use it to buy house prices none<00:16:36.880> to<00:16:36.959> use<00:16:37.120> it<00:16:37.199> to<00:16:37.279> buy<00:16:37.440> houses<00:16:37.759> pushing

none to use it to buy houses pushing

none to use it to buy houses pushing house<00:16:38.240> prices<00:16:38.639> up<00:16:38.880> none<00:16:39.040> of<00:16:39.199> it<00:16:39.279> will<00:16:39.360> go<00:16:39.440> to

house prices up none of it will go to

house prices up none of it will go to the<00:16:39.600> rest<00:16:39.759> of<00:16:39.839> us<00:16:40.000> and<00:16:40.079> the<00:16:40.160> economy<00:16:40.480> will<00:16:40.639> be

the rest of us and the economy will be

the rest of us and the economy will be weak

weak

weak so<00:16:41.600> so<00:16:42.720> do<00:16:42.880> we<00:16:42.959> think<00:16:43.199> the<00:16:43.279> economy<00:16:43.600> won't

so so do we think the economy won't

so so do we think the economy won't improve

improve

improve how<00:16:44.959> do<00:16:45.120> we<00:16:45.279> stocks<00:16:46.160> in<00:16:46.480> inequality<00:16:47.199> i<00:16:47.279> mean

how do we stocks in inequality i mean

how do we stocks in inequality i mean you're<00:16:47.759> a<00:16:47.920> former<00:16:48.240> trader<00:16:48.639> now

you're a former trader now

you're a former trader now multi-millionaire<00:16:49.600> but<00:16:49.759> you

multi-millionaire but you

multi-millionaire but you actually<00:16:50.240> want<00:16:50.399> to<00:16:50.560> see<00:16:51.040> higher<00:16:51.360> taxes<00:16:51.839> so<00:16:52.079> do

actually want to see higher taxes so do

actually want to see higher taxes so do you<00:16:52.399> see<00:16:52.639> higher<00:16:52.959> taxes

you see higher taxes

you see higher taxes as<00:16:53.839> the<00:16:54.079> answer<00:16:55.759> yeah<00:16:55.920> i<00:16:56.000> think<00:16:56.160> definitely

as the answer yeah i think definitely

as the answer yeah i think definitely higher<00:16:56.720> taxes<00:16:57.040> have<00:16:57.199> to<00:16:57.279> be<00:16:57.360> part<00:16:57.519> of<00:16:57.600> the

higher taxes have to be part of the

higher taxes have to be part of the solution<00:16:58.079> but<00:16:58.240> i'm<00:16:58.399> really

solution but i'm really

solution but i'm really um<00:16:59.360> it's<00:16:59.519> really<00:16:59.680> important<00:17:00.000> to<00:17:00.079> emphasize

um it's really important to emphasize

um it's really important to emphasize when<00:17:00.639> i<00:17:00.720> talk<00:17:00.959> about<00:17:01.120> this<00:17:01.600> those<00:17:01.839> taxes

when i talk about this those taxes

when i talk about this those taxes shouldn't<00:17:02.480> be<00:17:02.560> on<00:17:02.720> ordinary<00:17:03.040> working<00:17:03.360> people

shouldn't be on ordinary working people

shouldn't be on ordinary working people you<00:17:03.759> know

you know

you know this<00:17:04.400> story<00:17:04.640> about<00:17:04.799> denise<00:17:05.120> coats<00:17:05.360> is<00:17:05.439> a

this story about denise coats is a

this story about denise coats is a perfect<00:17:05.839> example<00:17:06.240> of<00:17:06.319> how<00:17:06.480> things<00:17:06.720> work

perfect example of how things work

perfect example of how things work her<00:17:07.520> father<00:17:07.760> was<00:17:07.839> a<00:17:07.919> multi-millionaire<00:17:08.559> when

her father was a multi-millionaire when

her father was a multi-millionaire when she<00:17:08.880> was<00:17:08.959> a<00:17:09.039> teenager<00:17:09.600> with<00:17:09.760> a<00:17:09.839> betting<00:17:10.160> empire

she was a teenager with a betting empire

she was a teenager with a betting empire now<00:17:10.959> she's<00:17:11.120> a<00:17:11.199> multi-millionaire<00:17:11.760> with<00:17:11.839> the

now she's a multi-millionaire with the

now she's a multi-millionaire with the betting<00:17:12.240> empire<00:17:12.799> where<00:17:13.039> i'm<00:17:13.199> from<00:17:13.439> in<00:17:13.520> ilford

betting empire where i'm from in ilford

betting empire where i'm from in ilford people<00:17:14.319> have<00:17:14.480> houses

people have houses

people have houses only<00:17:15.199> if<00:17:15.360> their<00:17:15.439> parents<00:17:15.760> had<00:17:15.919> houses<00:17:16.400> you

only if their parents had houses you

only if their parents had houses you know<00:17:16.799> so<00:17:16.959> we're<00:17:17.120> in<00:17:17.199> a<00:17:17.280> situation<00:17:17.760> where<00:17:17.839> you

know so we're in a situation where you

know so we're in a situation where you can<00:17:18.079> only<00:17:18.240> be<00:17:18.400> rich<00:17:18.720> if<00:17:18.880> your<00:17:19.039> parents<00:17:19.439> are

can only be rich if your parents are

can only be rich if your parents are rich

rich

rich but<00:17:20.240> we<00:17:20.400> need<00:17:20.559> to<00:17:20.720> go<00:17:20.880> after<00:17:21.120> those<00:17:21.600> super

but we need to go after those super

but we need to go after those super super<00:17:22.160> rich<00:17:22.400> families<00:17:23.039> rather<00:17:23.280> than<00:17:23.520> just

super rich families rather than just

super rich families rather than just make<00:17:23.919> a<00:17:24.000> change<00:17:24.240> to<00:17:24.319> the<00:17:24.400> taxes<00:17:24.799> and<00:17:24.959> are<00:17:25.039> going

make a change to the taxes and are going

make a change to the taxes and are going to<00:17:25.199> end<00:17:25.280> up<00:17:25.360> hitting<00:17:25.679> ordinary<00:17:26.000> working

to end up hitting ordinary working

to end up hitting ordinary working people<00:17:26.480> so<00:17:26.640> for<00:17:26.799> me

people so for me

people so for me it<00:17:27.439> needs<00:17:27.600> to<00:17:27.679> be<00:17:27.760> taxes<00:17:28.079> but<00:17:28.160> it<00:17:28.240> needs<00:17:28.400> to<00:17:28.480> be

it needs to be taxes but it needs to be

it needs to be taxes but it needs to be on<00:17:28.720> the<00:17:28.799> super<00:17:29.039> rich<00:17:30.240> but

on the super rich but

on the super rich but of<00:17:30.720> course<00:17:31.200> um<00:17:31.440> and<00:17:31.600> annabelle<00:17:32.080> i'm<00:17:32.160> sure<00:17:32.480> will

of course um and annabelle i'm sure will

of course um and annabelle i'm sure will agree<00:17:32.880> with<00:17:33.039> this<00:17:33.440> whenever

agree with this whenever

agree with this whenever uh<00:17:34.480> you<00:17:34.559> know<00:17:34.799> extremely<00:17:35.440> high<00:17:35.679> rates<00:17:36.000> of<00:17:36.160> tax

uh you know extremely high rates of tax

uh you know extremely high rates of tax have<00:17:36.640> been<00:17:36.880> introduced

have been introduced

have been introduced then<00:17:38.080> an<00:17:38.240> awful<00:17:38.480> lot<00:17:38.640> of<00:17:38.720> the<00:17:38.880> super<00:17:39.200> rich

then an awful lot of the super rich

then an awful lot of the super rich whether<00:17:40.000> we<00:17:40.080> like<00:17:40.320> it<00:17:40.480> or<00:17:40.559> not

whether we like it or not

whether we like it or not have<00:17:41.440> have<00:17:41.760> moved<00:17:42.000> to<00:17:42.080> other<00:17:42.320> tax<00:17:42.640> domains

have have moved to other tax domains

have have moved to other tax domains haven't<00:17:43.360> they<00:17:43.520> so<00:17:43.840> so<00:17:44.080> annabelle

haven't they so so annabelle

haven't they so so annabelle is<00:17:44.799> it<00:17:45.039> is<00:17:45.200> it<00:17:45.919> i<00:17:46.000> don't<00:17:46.160> know<00:17:46.320> is<00:17:46.480> it<00:17:46.559> about

is it is it i don't know is it about

is it is it i don't know is it about incentivizing<00:17:47.520> people

incentivizing people

incentivizing people is<00:17:48.080> it<00:17:48.160> about<00:17:48.400> a<00:17:48.559> reformed<00:17:49.200> tax<00:17:49.440> system<00:17:49.840> that

is it about a reformed tax system that

is it about a reformed tax system that means<00:17:50.240> that<00:17:50.320> you<00:17:50.480> can't<00:17:50.799> just<00:17:51.120> i<00:17:51.200> mean<00:17:51.360> i<00:17:51.440> know

means that you can't just i mean i know

means that you can't just i mean i know that<00:17:51.679> there<00:17:51.840> has<00:17:52.000> already<00:17:52.240> been<00:17:52.400> a<00:17:52.480> lot<00:17:52.640> of

that there has already been a lot of

that there has already been a lot of work<00:17:53.039> done

work done

work done in<00:17:53.679> terms<00:17:53.919> of<00:17:54.000> sort<00:17:54.160> of<00:17:54.320> closing<00:17:54.720> down<00:17:55.200> those

in terms of sort of closing down those

in terms of sort of closing down those kind<00:17:55.679> of<00:17:55.840> tax<00:17:56.160> loopholes<00:17:56.640> and<00:17:56.799> tax<00:17:57.120> havens

kind of tax loopholes and tax havens

kind of tax loopholes and tax havens but<00:17:58.080> you<00:17:58.160> know<00:17:58.240> what<00:17:58.799> what<00:17:58.960> are<00:17:59.039> the<00:17:59.200> answers

but you know what what are the answers

but you know what what are the answers to<00:17:59.760> make<00:18:00.000> it<00:18:00.240> fairer

to make it fairer

to make it fairer you<00:18:01.120> know<00:18:01.360> forgetting<00:18:01.919> the<00:18:02.160> the<00:18:02.640> disparity

you know forgetting the the disparity

you know forgetting the the disparity and<00:18:03.360> how<00:18:03.600> great<00:18:03.840> it<00:18:04.000> is

and how great it is

and how great it is yeah<00:18:05.679> i<00:18:05.760> mean<00:18:06.160> just<00:18:06.320> to<00:18:06.400> go<00:18:06.559> to<00:18:06.720> my<00:18:06.880> previous

yeah i mean just to go to my previous

yeah i mean just to go to my previous point<00:18:07.600> you<00:18:07.679> know<00:18:07.919> i<00:18:08.000> think<00:18:08.320> that

point you know i think that

point you know i think that my<00:18:09.200> the<00:18:09.520> point<00:18:09.760> i<00:18:09.840> was<00:18:10.000> making<00:18:10.240> is<00:18:10.400> just<00:18:10.559> that

my the point i was making is just that

my the point i was making is just that we<00:18:11.200> can<00:18:11.760> fixate<00:18:12.320> on<00:18:12.480> high<00:18:12.720> pay

we can fixate on high pay

we can fixate on high pay and<00:18:13.600> it<00:18:13.760> distracts<00:18:14.320> from<00:18:14.480> the<00:18:14.640> very<00:18:14.880> important

and it distracts from the very important

and it distracts from the very important issues<00:18:15.679> of<00:18:15.760> labor<00:18:16.240> that's<00:18:16.400> why<00:18:16.640> i'm<00:18:16.720> saying

issues of labor that's why i'm saying

issues of labor that's why i'm saying let's<00:18:17.200> not<00:18:17.360> talk<00:18:17.679> i<00:18:17.760> wasn't<00:18:18.000> dismissing<00:18:18.640> that

let's not talk i wasn't dismissing that

let's not talk i wasn't dismissing that yes<00:18:20.960> um<00:18:21.360> as<00:18:21.600> you<00:18:21.840> say

yes um as you say

yes um as you say people<00:18:22.480> are<00:18:22.880> we<00:18:23.200> know<00:18:23.919> that<00:18:24.400> um

people are we know that um

people are we know that um the<00:18:25.520> wealthy<00:18:26.000> are<00:18:26.400> very<00:18:26.799> sensitive<00:18:27.440> to<00:18:27.760> tax

the wealthy are very sensitive to tax

the wealthy are very sensitive to tax risers<00:18:28.640> and<00:18:28.880> we<00:18:29.120> know

risers and we know

risers and we know that<00:18:30.240> um<00:18:30.799> if<00:18:30.960> you<00:18:31.280> increase<00:18:31.760> uh<00:18:32.000> income<00:18:32.320> tax

that um if you increase uh income tax

that um if you increase uh income tax for<00:18:32.720> instance<00:18:33.120> then

for instance then

for instance then it<00:18:33.760> can<00:18:33.919> lead<00:18:34.080> to<00:18:34.240> lower<00:18:34.880> revenues<00:18:35.440> for<00:18:35.840> the

it can lead to lower revenues for the

it can lead to lower revenues for the treasury<00:18:36.559> so<00:18:36.720> it's<00:18:36.799> something<00:18:37.039> that<00:18:37.200> you<00:18:37.360> need

treasury so it's something that you need

treasury so it's something that you need to

to

to approach<00:18:38.960> very<00:18:39.280> carefully<00:18:39.919> i<00:18:40.080> would<00:18:40.320> rather

approach very carefully i would rather

approach very carefully i would rather not

not

not solely<00:18:42.559> look<00:18:42.720> at<00:18:42.799> the<00:18:42.880> cost<00:18:43.120> of<00:18:43.280> living<00:18:43.600> crisis

solely look at the cost of living crisis

solely look at the cost of living crisis through

through

through the<00:18:45.919> prism<00:18:46.320> of<00:18:46.480> government<00:18:46.799> intervention<00:18:47.440> how

the prism of government intervention how

the prism of government intervention how can<00:18:47.840> price<00:18:48.080> controls<00:18:48.559> or<00:18:48.720> regulation<00:18:49.360> or

can price controls or regulation or

can price controls or regulation or higher<00:18:49.679> minimum<00:18:50.080> wages

higher minimum wages

higher minimum wages um<00:18:51.600> address<00:18:52.000> the<00:18:52.160> cost<00:18:52.400> of<00:18:52.480> living<00:18:53.039> a<00:18:53.120> crisis

um address the cost of living a crisis

um address the cost of living a crisis i'd<00:18:53.760> rather<00:18:54.240> look<00:18:54.559> at<00:18:54.799> how

i'd rather look at how

i'd rather look at how government<00:18:55.679> intervention<00:18:56.320> actually<00:18:56.799> raises

government intervention actually raises

government intervention actually raises the<00:18:57.760> cost<00:18:58.080> of<00:18:58.240> living<00:18:58.480> for<00:18:58.640> a<00:18:58.720> lot<00:18:58.880> of<00:18:58.960> people

the cost of living for a lot of people

the cost of living for a lot of people look<00:18:59.600> at

look at

look at housing<00:19:00.480> look<00:19:00.640> at<00:19:00.880> child<00:19:01.280> care<00:19:01.840> um<00:19:02.160> there<00:19:02.320> are

housing look at child care um there are

housing look at child care um there are areas<00:19:03.200> that

areas that

areas that government<00:19:04.160> regulation<00:19:05.039> is<00:19:05.360> is<00:19:05.600> driving<00:19:06.240> up

government regulation is is driving up

government regulation is is driving up costs<00:19:06.960> and<00:19:07.120> that<00:19:07.360> is

costs and that is

costs and that is contributing<00:19:08.559> to<00:19:08.720> the<00:19:08.799> cost<00:19:09.039> of<00:19:09.120> living

contributing to the cost of living

contributing to the cost of living crisis<00:19:09.760> and<00:19:09.919> that<00:19:10.240> is<00:19:10.320> what

crisis and that is what

crisis and that is what i<00:19:10.960> would<00:19:11.120> like<00:19:11.360> to<00:19:11.440> address<00:19:12.080> rather<00:19:12.480> than

i would like to address rather than

i would like to address rather than having<00:19:13.039> this<00:19:13.360> rather<00:19:13.679> simplistic<00:19:14.320> approach

having this rather simplistic approach

having this rather simplistic approach of

of

of let's<00:19:15.360> just<00:19:15.520> tax<00:19:15.840> wealthy<00:19:16.160> people<00:19:16.480> more<00:19:16.720> as

let's just tax wealthy people more as

let's just tax wealthy people more as though<00:19:17.440> that<00:19:17.679> won't<00:19:18.080> have

though that won't have

though that won't have an<00:19:18.880> impact<00:19:19.280> on<00:19:19.440> people's<00:19:19.919> behaviors<00:19:20.640> and

an impact on people's behaviors and

an impact on people's behaviors and potentially

potentially

potentially you<00:19:22.000> know<00:19:22.240> hit<00:19:22.480> those<00:19:22.799> perhaps<00:19:23.120> in<00:19:23.200> the<00:19:23.280> middle

you know hit those perhaps in the middle

you know hit those perhaps in the middle hit<00:19:23.760> those<00:19:24.240> at<00:19:24.400> the<00:19:24.559> lower

hit those at the lower

hit those at the lower um<00:19:25.280> end<00:19:25.520> of<00:19:25.600> the<00:19:25.919> income<00:19:26.320> scale<00:19:26.880> rather<00:19:27.280> than

um end of the income scale rather than

um end of the income scale rather than um

isn't<00:19:31.120> it<00:19:31.200> about<00:19:31.520> cultural<00:19:32.240> change<00:19:32.720> as<00:19:32.960> well

isn't it about cultural change as well

isn't it about cultural change as well though<00:19:33.679> because

though because

though because you<00:19:34.320> need<00:19:34.559> people<00:19:34.799> to<00:19:34.960> want<00:19:35.120> to<00:19:35.280> pay<00:19:35.520> taxes

you need people to want to pay taxes

you need people to want to pay taxes because<00:19:36.960> actually<00:19:37.360> we<00:19:37.520> all<00:19:37.679> benefit

because actually we all benefit

because actually we all benefit from<00:19:38.799> taxes<00:19:39.200> being<00:19:39.440> paid<00:19:39.840> and<00:19:40.080> and<00:19:40.240> and<00:19:40.480> the

from taxes being paid and and and the

from taxes being paid and and and the country<00:19:41.200> actually<00:19:41.679> being

country actually being

country actually being you<00:19:42.400> know<00:19:43.039> operating<00:19:44.000> well<00:19:44.240> as<00:19:44.400> a<00:19:44.480> result<00:19:44.880> of

you know operating well as a result of

you know operating well as a result of the<00:19:45.120> fact<00:19:45.360> that<00:19:45.520> we<00:19:45.679> pay<00:19:45.840> taxes<00:19:46.160> you<00:19:46.240> can't

the fact that we pay taxes you can't

the fact that we pay taxes you can't enjoy

enjoy

enjoy having<00:19:47.280> dustbin<00:19:47.760> men<00:19:48.000> and<00:19:48.080> roads<00:19:48.400> fixed<00:19:48.640> and

having dustbin men and roads fixed and

having dustbin men and roads fixed and all<00:19:48.880> of<00:19:48.960> those<00:19:49.120> things<00:19:49.360> if<00:19:49.840> you<00:19:49.919> don't<00:19:50.080> pay

all of those things if you don't pay

all of those things if you don't pay your<00:19:50.400> fair<00:19:50.559> share<00:19:50.799> of<00:19:50.880> tax

your fair share of tax

your fair share of tax and<00:19:51.520> that<00:19:51.679> does<00:19:51.919> seem<00:19:52.080> to<00:19:52.240> be<00:19:52.640> a<00:19:52.720> particular

and that does seem to be a particular

and that does seem to be a particular issue<00:19:53.520> in<00:19:53.679> this<00:19:53.760> country<00:19:54.080> but<00:19:54.240> but<00:19:54.480> rachel<00:19:54.880> you

issue in this country but but rachel you

issue in this country but but rachel you know

know

know um<00:19:55.919> 8.8<00:19:56.880> pounds<00:19:57.280> 92<00:19:58.000> is<00:19:58.080> the<00:19:58.320> is<00:19:58.480> the

um 8.8 pounds 92 is the is the

um 8.8 pounds 92 is the is the latest<00:19:59.120> level<00:19:59.440> for<00:19:59.600> the<00:20:00.400> minimum<00:20:00.960> wage<00:20:01.600> and

latest level for the minimum wage and

latest level for the minimum wage and according<00:20:02.240> to<00:20:02.320> the<00:20:02.480> high<00:20:02.799> pay<00:20:03.120> center<00:20:03.600> over

according to the high pay center over

according to the high pay center over half<00:20:04.240> of<00:20:04.400> britain<00:20:04.799> support<00:20:05.200> the<00:20:05.360> introduction

half of britain support the introduction

half of britain support the introduction of<00:20:06.000> a<00:20:06.159> maximum<00:20:06.720> wage

of a maximum wage

of a maximum wage and<00:20:07.440> a<00:20:07.520> hundred<00:20:07.840> thousand<00:20:08.640> a<00:20:08.799> pound<00:20:09.360> cap<00:20:09.679> would

and a hundred thousand a pound cap would

and a hundred thousand a pound cap would hurt

hurt

hurt less<00:20:10.720> than<00:20:11.039> three<00:20:11.280> percent<00:20:11.919> of<00:20:12.240> earners<00:20:12.799> i

less than three percent of earners i

less than three percent of earners i mean<00:20:13.039> what<00:20:13.200> what<00:20:13.360> do<00:20:13.520> you<00:20:13.600> think<00:20:13.760> about<00:20:14.080> a<00:20:14.159> wage

mean what what do you think about a wage

mean what what do you think about a wage cap<00:20:14.640> i'm<00:20:15.120> sure<00:20:15.280> that<00:20:15.440> annabelle's<00:20:15.919> going<00:20:16.080> to

cap i'm sure that annabelle's going to

cap i'm sure that annabelle's going to be

be

be vehemently<00:20:17.440> uh<00:20:17.919> opposed<00:20:18.400> to<00:20:18.559> it<00:20:18.720> but<00:20:19.039> what<00:20:19.440> are

vehemently uh opposed to it but what are

vehemently uh opposed to it but what are your<00:20:19.679> thoughts

your thoughts

your thoughts is<00:20:20.159> it<00:20:20.240> even<00:20:20.480> workable<00:20:21.919> yeah<00:20:22.240> so

is it even workable yeah so

is it even workable yeah so the<00:20:23.440> piece<00:20:23.679> of<00:20:23.760> research<00:20:24.159> we<00:20:24.240> did<00:20:24.400> about<00:20:24.720> that

the piece of research we did about that

the piece of research we did about that um<00:20:25.600> wasn't<00:20:25.919> about<00:20:26.159> fleshing<00:20:26.640> out<00:20:26.799> a<00:20:26.880> concrete

um wasn't about fleshing out a concrete

um wasn't about fleshing out a concrete policy<00:20:28.000> proposal<00:20:28.559> but<00:20:28.720> it<00:20:28.799> was<00:20:29.039> actually

policy proposal but it was actually

policy proposal but it was actually rather<00:20:29.679> about<00:20:29.919> demonstrating<00:20:30.640> just<00:20:30.880> how<00:20:31.039> much

rather about demonstrating just how much

rather about demonstrating just how much potential<00:20:31.760> there<00:20:32.000> is<00:20:32.240> for<00:20:32.400> redistribution<00:20:33.120> in

potential there is for redistribution in

potential there is for redistribution in the<00:20:33.280> uk

the uk

the uk in<00:20:34.400> terms<00:20:34.640> of<00:20:34.720> raising<00:20:35.039> the<00:20:35.200> pay<00:20:35.360> of<00:20:35.440> lowest

in terms of raising the pay of lowest

in terms of raising the pay of lowest earners<00:20:36.480> um<00:20:37.039> so<00:20:37.200> i<00:20:37.360> think

earners um so i think

earners um so i think i'd<00:20:37.919> want<00:20:38.080> to<00:20:38.640> think<00:20:38.960> much<00:20:39.200> more<00:20:39.360> carefully

i'd want to think much more carefully

i'd want to think much more carefully about<00:20:40.080> it<00:20:40.159> as<00:20:40.320> a<00:20:40.400> policy<00:20:40.799> proposal<00:20:41.360> before

about it as a policy proposal before

about it as a policy proposal before saying<00:20:41.919> definitively<00:20:42.559> yes<00:20:42.799> or<00:20:42.960> no<00:20:43.200> but

saying definitively yes or no but

saying definitively yes or no but i<00:20:43.679> think<00:20:43.840> the<00:20:44.000> main<00:20:44.240> point<00:20:44.480> actually<00:20:44.880> here<00:20:45.200> is

i think the main point actually here is

i think the main point actually here is um

um

um that<00:20:47.200> just<00:20:47.440> having<00:20:47.679> a<00:20:47.760> wage<00:20:48.080> capital<00:20:48.480> just<00:20:48.799> as

that just having a wage capital just as

that just having a wage capital just as angola<00:20:49.360> said<00:20:49.679> um

angola said um

angola said um thinking<00:20:50.480> about<00:20:50.720> taxes<00:20:51.760> taxing<00:20:52.240> the<00:20:52.320> rich<00:20:52.799> um

thinking about taxes taxing the rich um

thinking about taxes taxing the rich um is<00:20:53.760> kind<00:20:53.919> of<00:20:54.080> skirting<00:20:54.480> around<00:20:54.799> a<00:20:54.880> larger

is kind of skirting around a larger

is kind of skirting around a larger problem<00:20:55.679> that<00:20:55.919> workers<00:20:56.320> are<00:20:56.480> really

problem that workers are really

problem that workers are really disempowered<00:20:58.320> um<00:20:58.559> and<00:20:58.720> have<00:20:58.960> become<00:20:59.600> more

disempowered um and have become more

disempowered um and have become more disempowered

disempowered

disempowered over<00:21:01.039> the<00:21:01.120> last<00:21:01.360> few<00:21:01.520> decades<00:21:02.080> so<00:21:03.440> trade<00:21:03.760> union

over the last few decades so trade union

over the last few decades so trade union power<00:21:04.480> has<00:21:04.720> like

power has like

power has like has<00:21:05.520> rapidly<00:21:06.000> declined<00:21:07.120> um<00:21:07.679> and

has rapidly declined um and

has rapidly declined um and basically<00:21:09.120> workers<00:21:09.520> don't<00:21:09.840> have<00:21:10.640> the

basically workers don't have the

basically workers don't have the majority<00:21:11.280> of<00:21:11.360> workers<00:21:11.679> don't<00:21:11.840> have<00:21:12.000> much<00:21:12.159> of<00:21:12.320> a

majority of workers don't have much of a

majority of workers don't have much of a say

say

say in<00:21:13.200> how<00:21:13.520> their<00:21:13.760> company<00:21:14.159> is<00:21:14.320> run<00:21:14.559> and<00:21:14.720> in<00:21:14.799> the

in how their company is run and in the

in how their company is run and in the decisions<00:21:15.520> that<00:21:15.679> affect

decisions that affect

decisions that affect their<00:21:16.159> daily<00:21:16.480> lives<00:21:17.039> and<00:21:17.679> there's<00:21:17.919> plenty<00:21:18.240> of

their daily lives and there's plenty of

their daily lives and there's plenty of research<00:21:18.720> showing<00:21:19.120> that

research showing that

research showing that um<00:21:20.640> high<00:21:20.880> levels<00:21:21.200> of<00:21:21.360> trade<00:21:21.600> union<00:21:21.919> influence

um high levels of trade union influence

um high levels of trade union influence are<00:21:23.440> connected<00:21:24.000> to<00:21:24.559> fairer<00:21:24.880> wages<00:21:25.360> and<00:21:25.520> also

are connected to fairer wages and also

are connected to fairer wages and also better<00:21:26.159> working<00:21:26.480> conditions

better working conditions

better working conditions um<00:21:27.919> so<00:21:28.080> i'd<00:21:28.240> say<00:21:28.400> where<00:21:28.640> we<00:21:28.799> actually<00:21:29.039> need<00:21:29.200> to

um so i'd say where we actually need to

um so i'd say where we actually need to start<00:21:29.600> with<00:21:29.760> this<00:21:30.000> is<00:21:30.159> to<00:21:30.240> think<00:21:30.400> about<00:21:30.640> how

start with this is to think about how

start with this is to think about how can

can

can workers<00:21:32.880> have<00:21:33.120> more<00:21:33.360> power<00:21:33.760> in<00:21:33.919> terms<00:21:34.240> of

workers have more power in terms of

workers have more power in terms of determining<00:21:35.039> their<00:21:35.280> own<00:21:35.600> working<00:21:36.000> lives<00:21:36.320> so

determining their own working lives so

determining their own working lives so i<00:21:36.720> mean<00:21:36.880> they<00:21:37.120> invest<00:21:37.520> their<00:21:37.840> labor<00:21:38.320> and<00:21:38.480> their

i mean they invest their labor and their

i mean they invest their labor and their minds<00:21:39.120> and<00:21:39.200> their<00:21:39.360> bodies<00:21:39.679> so<00:21:39.840> it<00:21:39.919> makes<00:21:40.240> total

minds and their bodies so it makes total

minds and their bodies so it makes total sense<00:21:40.880> that<00:21:41.039> they<00:21:41.200> would<00:21:41.440> actually

sense that they would actually

sense that they would actually um<00:21:42.640> be<00:21:42.880> involved<00:21:43.200> in<00:21:43.280> this<00:21:43.440> decision<00:21:44.159> okay

um be involved in this decision okay

um be involved in this decision okay we're<00:21:45.039> we're<00:21:45.280> running<00:21:45.600> out<00:21:45.760> of<00:21:45.840> time<00:21:46.080> i'm

we're we're running out of time i'm

we're we're running out of time i'm afraid<00:21:46.640> very<00:21:46.960> fast<00:21:47.200> so<00:21:47.280> i<00:21:47.360> want<00:21:47.520> to<00:21:47.679> ask<00:21:47.919> all<00:21:48.080> of

afraid very fast so i want to ask all of

afraid very fast so i want to ask all of you<00:21:48.400> just<00:21:48.640> very<00:21:48.960> very<00:21:49.280> briefly<00:21:49.679> if<00:21:49.840> you<00:21:49.919> had<00:21:50.080> a

you just very very briefly if you had a

you just very very briefly if you had a magic<00:21:50.640> wand

magic wand

magic wand um<00:21:52.000> or<00:21:52.320> you<00:21:52.480> know<00:21:53.039> what<00:21:53.200> would<00:21:53.360> be<00:21:53.440> the<00:21:53.760> very

um or you know what would be the very

um or you know what would be the very first<00:21:54.480> thing<00:21:54.799> that<00:21:54.960> you<00:21:55.120> would<00:21:55.360> do

first thing that you would do

first thing that you would do in<00:21:56.320> order<00:21:56.720> to<00:21:56.960> try<00:21:57.440> and<00:21:57.600> make<00:21:57.919> things<00:21:58.240> a<00:21:58.320> bit

in order to try and make things a bit

in order to try and make things a bit less<00:21:58.799> a<00:21:58.880> bit<00:21:59.120> more<00:21:59.360> equitable<00:22:00.000> uh<00:22:00.240> gary

i<00:22:03.120> think<00:22:03.280> for<00:22:03.520> me<00:22:03.840> the<00:22:03.919> wealth<00:22:04.159> tax<00:22:04.480> which<00:22:04.640> is

i think for me the wealth tax which is

i think for me the wealth tax which is being<00:22:04.880> spoken<00:22:05.200> about

being spoken about

being spoken about that<00:22:06.799> is<00:22:06.960> the<00:22:07.039> key<00:22:07.280> that<00:22:07.440> is<00:22:07.600> one<00:22:07.679> that's<00:22:07.840> going

that is the key that is one that's going

that is the key that is one that's going to<00:22:08.080> fix<00:22:08.240> it<00:22:08.400> for<00:22:08.480> us<00:22:08.640> and<00:22:08.720> if<00:22:08.880> we<00:22:08.960> could<00:22:09.120> have

to fix it for us and if we could have

to fix it for us and if we could have that

that

that uniformly<00:22:10.320> across<00:22:10.640> europe<00:22:10.880> and<00:22:10.960> in<00:22:11.039> the<00:22:11.120> u.s<00:22:11.520> i

uniformly across europe and in the u.s i

uniformly across europe and in the u.s i think<00:22:11.760> that<00:22:11.919> would<00:22:12.000> do<00:22:12.159> a<00:22:12.320> massive<00:22:12.640> amount<00:22:12.960> to

think that would do a massive amount to

think that would do a massive amount to improve

improve

improve economic<00:22:14.080> life<00:22:14.240> for<00:22:14.320> ordinary<00:22:14.720> people<00:22:15.919> that

economic life for ordinary people that

economic life for ordinary people that is<00:22:16.320> a<00:22:16.400> dream<00:22:16.720> and<00:22:16.799> that<00:22:17.039> is<00:22:17.120> a<00:22:17.200> magic<00:22:17.600> wand

is a dream and that is a magic wand

is a dream and that is a magic wand instance<00:22:18.559> isn't<00:22:18.720> it<00:22:18.799> do<00:22:18.880> you<00:22:18.960> not<00:22:19.120> think<00:22:19.360> that

instance isn't it do you not think that

instance isn't it do you not think that wealthy<00:22:19.919> people<00:22:20.240> just<00:22:20.640> move<00:22:20.960> off<00:22:21.120> to

wealthy people just move off to

wealthy people just move off to monaco<00:22:22.080> or<00:22:22.240> wherever<00:22:23.679> well<00:22:23.840> i<00:22:23.919> mean<00:22:24.080> if<00:22:24.159> you

monaco or wherever well i mean if you

monaco or wherever well i mean if you look<00:22:24.400> at<00:22:24.480> the<00:22:24.720> 60s<00:22:25.280> where<00:22:25.440> we<00:22:25.520> had<00:22:25.840> high

look at the 60s where we had high

look at the 60s where we had high hacks<00:22:26.799> on<00:22:26.880> the<00:22:26.960> rich<00:22:27.200> all<00:22:27.280> across<00:22:27.600> europe

hacks on the rich all across europe

hacks on the rich all across europe there<00:22:28.000> was<00:22:28.080> nowhere<00:22:28.400> they<00:22:28.480> could<00:22:28.559> go<00:22:28.799> you<00:22:28.880> know

there was nowhere they could go you know

there was nowhere they could go you know every<00:22:29.280> country<00:22:29.600> has<00:22:29.679> this<00:22:29.840> problem

every country has this problem

every country has this problem every<00:22:30.400> country<00:22:30.640> has<00:22:30.720> the<00:22:30.799> same<00:22:31.039> problem<00:22:31.280> of

every country has the same problem of

every country has the same problem of the<00:22:31.440> wealthy<00:22:31.919> taking<00:22:32.240> way<00:22:32.400> too<00:22:32.559> much<00:22:32.720> and

the wealthy taking way too much and

the wealthy taking way too much and leaving<00:22:33.039> not<00:22:33.120> enough<00:22:33.280> for<00:22:33.360> the<00:22:33.440> rest<00:22:33.600> of<00:22:33.760> us<00:22:33.919> so

leaving not enough for the rest of us so

leaving not enough for the rest of us so we<00:22:34.559> need<00:22:34.640> to<00:22:34.720> work<00:22:34.880> together<00:22:35.120> to<00:22:35.200> fix<00:22:35.440> it<00:22:35.520> and

we need to work together to fix it and

we need to work together to fix it and then<00:22:36.000> they<00:22:36.159> can't<00:22:36.320> run<00:22:36.480> away<00:22:37.360> annabelle

then they can't run away annabelle

then they can't run away annabelle well<00:22:38.640> i<00:22:38.720> mean<00:22:38.880> the<00:22:38.960> vast<00:22:39.120> majority<00:22:39.600> of

well i mean the vast majority of

well i mean the vast majority of companies<00:22:40.080> that<00:22:40.159> have<00:22:40.240> introduced<00:22:40.720> wealth

companies that have introduced wealth

companies that have introduced wealth taxes<00:22:41.440> have<00:22:41.520> later<00:22:41.840> abandoned<00:22:42.320> them<00:22:42.480> which

taxes have later abandoned them which

taxes have later abandoned them which is<00:22:43.520> a<00:22:43.600> pretty<00:22:43.760> strong<00:22:44.080> indicator<00:22:44.480> that<00:22:44.640> they

is a pretty strong indicator that they

is a pretty strong indicator that they don't<00:22:45.360> work<00:22:45.760> um<00:22:46.320> i<00:22:46.480> think<00:22:46.799> that

don't work um i think that

don't work um i think that you<00:22:47.360> know<00:22:47.600> we<00:22:47.760> have<00:22:47.919> a<00:22:48.640> nearly<00:22:48.880> five<00:22:49.120> million

you know we have a nearly five million

you know we have a nearly five million people<00:22:49.840> still<00:22:50.240> on<00:22:50.320> the<00:22:50.400> furlough<00:22:50.799> scheme<00:22:51.120> when

people still on the furlough scheme when

people still on the furlough scheme when it<00:22:51.440> is<00:22:51.600> unwound<00:22:52.159> unfortunately

it is unwound unfortunately

it is unwound unfortunately a<00:22:53.520> lot<00:22:53.760> of<00:22:53.840> those<00:22:54.000> people<00:22:54.320> are<00:22:54.400> not<00:22:54.559> going<00:22:54.640> to

a lot of those people are not going to

a lot of those people are not going to have<00:22:54.880> jobs<00:22:55.200> to<00:22:55.440> return<00:22:55.840> to<00:22:56.080> that<00:22:56.240> might<00:22:56.480> be<00:22:56.559> in

have jobs to return to that might be in

have jobs to return to that might be in hospitality<00:22:57.520> or<00:22:57.679> retail<00:22:58.159> or<00:22:58.320> the<00:22:58.400> other

hospitality or retail or the other

hospitality or retail or the other sectors<00:22:58.880> that<00:22:59.039> have<00:22:59.120> been<00:22:59.200> particularly<00:22:59.600> hard

sectors that have been particularly hard

sectors that have been particularly hard hit<00:23:00.000> by<00:23:00.159> the<00:23:00.240> pandemic

hit by the pandemic

hit by the pandemic sorry<00:23:01.440> we're<00:23:01.600> just<00:23:01.760> coming<00:23:02.080> up<00:23:02.159> to<00:23:02.240> the<00:23:02.320> news

sorry we're just coming up to the news

sorry we're just coming up to the news annabel<00:23:03.039> yeah<00:23:03.440> oh

annabel yeah oh

annabel yeah oh yeah<00:23:05.120> go<00:23:05.280> on<00:23:06.640> very<00:23:06.799> briefly<00:23:07.280> yeah<00:23:07.679> we<00:23:07.760> need<00:23:07.919> to

yeah go on very briefly yeah we need to

yeah go on very briefly yeah we need to have<00:23:08.159> a<00:23:08.240> flexible

have a flexible

have a flexible uh<00:23:09.039> labour<00:23:09.280> market<00:23:09.600> we<00:23:09.760> need<00:23:09.840> to<00:23:09.919> try<00:23:10.080> and

uh labour market we need to try and

uh labour market we need to try and deregulate<00:23:11.039> um<00:23:11.440> the<00:23:11.760> employment

deregulate um the employment

deregulate um the employment and<00:23:12.799> make<00:23:13.039> it<00:23:13.120> as<00:23:13.280> easy<00:23:13.520> as<00:23:13.600> possible<00:23:13.919> for

and make it as easy as possible for

and make it as easy as possible for companies<00:23:14.559> to<00:23:14.799> take<00:23:15.039> on<00:23:15.200> workers