let's<00:00:00.320> crack<00:00:00.640> on<00:00:01.120> with<00:00:01.599> business<00:00:02.080> and<00:00:02.240> our

let's crack on with business and our

let's crack on with business and our political<00:00:02.879> panel<00:00:03.199> this<00:00:03.439> afternoon<00:00:04.400> gary

political panel this afternoon gary

political panel this afternoon gary stevenson<00:00:05.440> is<00:00:05.600> a<00:00:05.759> former<00:00:06.160> city<00:00:06.480> trader<00:00:07.120> turned

stevenson is a former city trader turned

stevenson is a former city trader turned in<00:00:07.759> a<00:00:07.919> quality<00:00:08.800> economist<00:00:09.840> and<00:00:10.320> annabelle

in a quality economist and annabelle

in a quality economist and annabelle denham<00:00:11.440> director<00:00:11.920> of<00:00:12.080> communications<00:00:13.200> at<00:00:13.360> the

denham director of communications at the

denham director of communications at the institute<00:00:14.080> of<00:00:14.320> economic<00:00:14.880> affairs<00:00:15.440> afternoon

institute of economic affairs afternoon

institute of economic affairs afternoon to<00:00:16.160> you<00:00:16.400> both

to you both

to you both good<00:00:18.000> afternoon<00:00:18.960> thanks<00:00:19.359> for<00:00:19.520> taking<00:00:19.840> the

good afternoon thanks for taking the

good afternoon thanks for taking the time<00:00:20.480> both<00:00:20.720> of<00:00:20.880> you<00:00:20.960> oh<00:00:21.119> hello<00:00:21.359> gary<00:00:21.600> i<00:00:21.760> know

time both of you oh hello gary i know

time both of you oh hello gary i know you<00:00:22.160> you<00:00:22.320> did<00:00:22.480> my<00:00:22.640> late<00:00:22.880> night<00:00:23.119> show<00:00:23.359> a<00:00:23.439> few

you you did my late night show a few

you you did my late night show a few times<00:00:24.160> didn't<00:00:24.400> you<00:00:24.800> you<00:00:25.039> did<00:00:25.279> indeed<00:00:25.760> and

times didn't you you did indeed and

times didn't you you did indeed and annabelle<00:00:26.720> very<00:00:26.960> welcome<00:00:27.519> to<00:00:27.680> have<00:00:27.920> you<00:00:28.480> as

annabelle very welcome to have you as

annabelle very welcome to have you as well<00:00:29.439> so<00:00:29.599> let's<00:00:29.840> talk<00:00:30.000> about<00:00:30.160> some<00:00:30.320> of<00:00:30.400> the<00:00:30.480> big

well so let's talk about some of the big

well so let's talk about some of the big stories<00:00:31.519> of<00:00:32.079> the<00:00:32.320> day<00:00:32.880> and<00:00:33.280> uh

stories of the day and uh

stories of the day and uh i<00:00:34.480> don't<00:00:34.640> know<00:00:34.800> whether<00:00:35.200> you<00:00:35.920> have<00:00:36.160> seen

i don't know whether you have seen

i don't know whether you have seen what's<00:00:36.719> been<00:00:36.880> happening<00:00:37.360> in<00:00:37.600> greece

what's been happening in greece

what's been happening in greece at<00:00:38.879> the<00:00:39.040> moment<00:00:39.440> where<00:00:39.600> they<00:00:39.760> have<00:00:39.920> now

at the moment where they have now

at the moment where they have now brought<00:00:40.399> it<00:00:40.559> in<00:00:40.719> as<00:00:40.800> a<00:00:40.879> mandatory<00:00:41.520> vaccine<00:00:42.079> for

brought it in as a mandatory vaccine for

brought it in as a mandatory vaccine for over<00:00:43.120> 60<00:00:43.520> year<00:00:43.760> olds<00:00:44.000> if<00:00:44.239> not<00:00:44.480> they<00:00:44.640> will<00:00:44.800> be

over 60 year olds if not they will be

over 60 year olds if not they will be fined<00:00:45.920> we<00:00:46.239> heard<00:00:46.719> a<00:00:46.960> radio<00:00:47.360> presenter<00:00:48.239> this

fined we heard a radio presenter this

fined we heard a radio presenter this morning<00:00:49.039> on<00:00:49.520> a<00:00:49.600> different<00:00:50.079> speech<00:00:50.640> radio

morning on a different speech radio

morning on a different speech radio station<00:00:51.840> also<00:00:52.719> claiming<00:00:53.520> that<00:00:53.760> there<00:00:53.920> should

station also claiming that there should

station also claiming that there should be<00:00:54.559> here<00:00:54.800> in<00:00:54.960> the<00:00:55.120> uk<00:00:56.079> mandatory<00:00:56.800> vaccinations

be here in the uk mandatory vaccinations

be here in the uk mandatory vaccinations or<00:00:58.559> you<00:00:58.800> face<00:00:59.520> a<00:00:59.840> fine<00:01:00.800> where<00:01:00.960> do<00:01:01.120> you<00:01:01.359> stand

or you face a fine where do you stand

or you face a fine where do you stand on<00:01:02.960> this<00:01:03.280> i'll<00:01:03.440> start<00:01:03.680> with<00:01:03.840> you<00:01:04.080> annabelle

on this i'll start with you annabelle

on this i'll start with you annabelle well<00:01:05.760> i<00:01:05.840> think<00:01:06.080> the<00:01:06.159> first<00:01:06.320> thing<00:01:06.479> i'd<00:01:06.640> say<00:01:06.880> is

well i think the first thing i'd say is

well i think the first thing i'd say is that<00:01:07.200> i'm<00:01:07.439> very<00:01:07.840> pro<00:01:08.240> vaccine<00:01:08.640> i<00:01:08.720> have<00:01:08.880> young

that i'm very pro vaccine i have young

that i'm very pro vaccine i have young children<00:01:09.520> who<00:01:09.760> i<00:01:09.840> would<00:01:10.080> likely<00:01:10.400> give<00:01:10.640> the

children who i would likely give the

children who i would likely give the copa<00:01:11.119> jab<00:01:11.520> if<00:01:11.680> it<00:01:11.760> was<00:01:11.920> recommended<00:01:12.400> by<00:01:12.560> the

copa jab if it was recommended by the

copa jab if it was recommended by the jcbi<00:01:13.439> so<00:01:13.600> that's<00:01:14.080> that's<00:01:14.320> my<00:01:14.560> starting<00:01:15.040> point

jcbi so that's that's my starting point

jcbi so that's that's my starting point but<00:01:15.520> i<00:01:15.600> would<00:01:15.759> say<00:01:15.920> that<00:01:16.159> mandatory

but i would say that mandatory

but i would say that mandatory vaccinations<00:01:17.360> and<00:01:17.439> this<00:01:17.600> has<00:01:17.759> been<00:01:18.240> explored

vaccinations and this has been explored

vaccinations and this has been explored a<00:01:18.720> lot<00:01:18.880> in<00:01:19.040> recent<00:01:19.439> weeks<00:01:20.000> raise<00:01:20.400> very

a lot in recent weeks raise very

a lot in recent weeks raise very important<00:01:21.520> ethical<00:01:22.240> questions<00:01:22.960> and<00:01:23.119> pose

important ethical questions and pose

important ethical questions and pose quite<00:01:24.400> worrying<00:01:24.799> ethical<00:01:25.600> dilemmas<00:01:26.560> um<00:01:26.960> so

quite worrying ethical dilemmas um so

quite worrying ethical dilemmas um so there's<00:01:27.360> that<00:01:27.759> element<00:01:28.320> to<00:01:28.560> it<00:01:28.960> um<00:01:29.439> but

there's that element to it um but

there's that element to it um but perhaps<00:01:30.320> the<00:01:30.799> most<00:01:31.040> concerning<00:01:31.600> part<00:01:31.840> to<00:01:32.000> me

perhaps the most concerning part to me

perhaps the most concerning part to me is<00:01:32.400> the<00:01:32.479> fact<00:01:32.640> that<00:01:32.880> the<00:01:33.040> evidence<00:01:33.360> suggests

is the fact that the evidence suggests

is the fact that the evidence suggests that<00:01:34.320> mandatory<00:01:34.720> vaccinations<00:01:36.000> don't

that mandatory vaccinations don't

that mandatory vaccinations don't actually<00:01:36.720> work<00:01:37.119> they<00:01:37.280> give<00:01:37.600> fuel<00:01:38.000> to<00:01:38.159> the

actually work they give fuel to the

actually work they give fuel to the anti-vac<00:01:39.200> saloons<00:01:39.840> by

anti-vac saloons by

anti-vac saloons by appearing<00:01:40.960> to<00:01:41.200> confirm<00:01:41.680> their<00:01:41.840> suspicions

appearing to confirm their suspicions

appearing to confirm their suspicions they<00:01:42.720> turn<00:01:43.439> the<00:01:43.600> vaccine<00:01:44.159> hesitant<00:01:44.720> into

they turn the vaccine hesitant into

they turn the vaccine hesitant into people<00:01:45.360> who<00:01:45.520> will<00:01:45.680> just

people who will just

people who will just outright<00:01:46.960> refuse<00:01:47.680> to<00:01:47.840> get<00:01:48.240> the<00:01:48.399> jab<00:01:48.799> obviously

outright refuse to get the jab obviously

outright refuse to get the jab obviously we<00:01:49.280> saw<00:01:49.520> in<00:01:49.680> vienna<00:01:50.399> that<00:01:50.640> protests<00:01:51.040> were

we saw in vienna that protests were

we saw in vienna that protests were turning<00:01:51.520> violent<00:01:52.000> when<00:01:52.159> around<00:01:52.479> 40<00:01:53.040> 000

turning violent when around 40 000

turning violent when around 40 000 people<00:01:53.840> were<00:01:54.079> taking<00:01:54.399> to<00:01:54.479> the<00:01:54.640> streets<00:01:55.040> to

people were taking to the streets to

people were taking to the streets to show<00:01:55.360> that<00:01:55.600> anger<00:01:56.159> against<00:01:56.560> this<00:01:56.880> new<00:01:57.200> mandate

show that anger against this new mandate

show that anger against this new mandate that's<00:01:57.759> 40<00:01:58.159> 000<00:01:58.320> people<00:01:58.560> who<00:01:58.719> haven't<00:01:59.040> been

that's 40 000 people who haven't been

that's 40 000 people who haven't been jabbed<00:02:00.079> who<00:02:00.240> are<00:02:00.399> mixing<00:02:00.960> together<00:02:01.360> that's

jabbed who are mixing together that's

jabbed who are mixing together that's gonna<00:02:02.320> intensify<00:02:02.960> the<00:02:03.040> public<00:02:03.360> health<00:02:03.600> crisis

gonna intensify the public health crisis

gonna intensify the public health crisis that<00:02:04.079> they<00:02:04.159> have<00:02:04.399> going<00:02:04.640> on<00:02:05.040> over<00:02:05.280> there<00:02:05.520> so

that they have going on over there so

that they have going on over there so everything<00:02:06.159> suggests<00:02:06.560> to<00:02:06.719> me<00:02:06.960> that<00:02:07.119> the

everything suggests to me that the

everything suggests to me that the behavioral<00:02:07.840> response<00:02:08.239> among<00:02:08.479> the<00:02:08.560> public<00:02:08.800> to

behavioral response among the public to

behavioral response among the public to mandatory<00:02:09.759> vaccines<00:02:10.399> is<00:02:10.560> going<00:02:10.879> to<00:02:11.039> take

mandatory vaccines is going to take

mandatory vaccines is going to take things<00:02:11.680> in<00:02:11.840> the<00:02:11.920> opposite<00:02:12.319> direction<00:02:12.800> to<00:02:12.959> the

things in the opposite direction to the

things in the opposite direction to the one<00:02:13.280> the<00:02:13.360> government<00:02:13.920> wants<00:02:14.239> it<00:02:14.319> to<00:02:14.480> go<00:02:15.040> into

one the government wants it to go into

one the government wants it to go into um<00:02:16.080> i<00:02:16.160> think<00:02:16.319> a<00:02:16.480> problem<00:02:16.879> that<00:02:16.959> the<00:02:17.120> continent

um i think a problem that the continent

um i think a problem that the continent have<00:02:17.760> and<00:02:17.920> we<00:02:18.080> certainly<00:02:18.480> have<00:02:18.800> here<00:02:19.520> is<00:02:19.680> that

have and we certainly have here is that

have and we certainly have here is that they<00:02:20.560> can<00:02:20.720> be<00:02:20.959> governments<00:02:21.360> can<00:02:21.440> be<00:02:21.599> very

they can be governments can be very

they can be governments can be very swift<00:02:22.400> to<00:02:22.640> condemn<00:02:23.200> those<00:02:23.599> who<00:02:23.920> don't<00:02:24.080> get<00:02:24.239> the

swift to condemn those who don't get the

swift to condemn those who don't get the vaccine<00:02:25.440> even<00:02:25.760> to<00:02:26.160> introduce<00:02:26.959> mandatory

vaccine even to introduce mandatory

vaccine even to introduce mandatory vaccinations<00:02:28.879> without<00:02:29.360> really<00:02:29.840> exploring

vaccinations without really exploring

vaccinations without really exploring the<00:02:30.640> reasons<00:02:31.360> why<00:02:31.680> people<00:02:32.160> are<00:02:32.319> choosing<00:02:33.120> not

the reasons why people are choosing not

the reasons why people are choosing not to<00:02:33.519> get<00:02:33.840> the<00:02:34.000> vaccine<00:02:34.480> i<00:02:34.560> think<00:02:34.720> it<00:02:34.800> would<00:02:34.959> make

to get the vaccine i think it would make

to get the vaccine i think it would make a<00:02:35.280> lot<00:02:35.440> more<00:02:35.599> sense<00:02:35.840> to<00:02:36.080> invest<00:02:36.560> time<00:02:36.959> and

a lot more sense to invest time and

a lot more sense to invest time and energy<00:02:37.440> into<00:02:37.680> communicating<00:02:38.400> and<00:02:38.560> convincing

energy into communicating and convincing

energy into communicating and convincing people<00:02:39.519> rather<00:02:40.480> than<00:02:40.879> forcing<00:02:41.360> them<00:02:41.920> and<00:02:42.239> if

people rather than forcing them and if

people rather than forcing them and if that<00:02:42.800> fails<00:02:43.360> then<00:02:43.680> i'd<00:02:43.920> be<00:02:44.080> in<00:02:44.239> favor<00:02:44.879> of

that fails then i'd be in favor of

that fails then i'd be in favor of rolling<00:02:45.519> out<00:02:45.680> incentives<00:02:46.319> to<00:02:46.480> get<00:02:46.800> the

rolling out incentives to get the

rolling out incentives to get the holdouts<00:02:47.440> to<00:02:47.599> take<00:02:47.840> vaccines

holdouts to take vaccines

holdouts to take vaccines such<00:02:49.360> as<00:02:49.519> cash<00:02:49.840> payments<00:02:50.239> or<00:02:50.800> lotteries<00:02:51.280> like

such as cash payments or lotteries like

such as cash payments or lotteries like we<00:02:51.599> saw<00:02:51.760> in<00:02:51.920> ohio<00:02:52.640> i<00:02:52.720> mean<00:02:53.040> gary<00:02:53.440> is<00:02:53.599> that<00:02:53.840> not

we saw in ohio i mean gary is that not

we saw in ohio i mean gary is that not perhaps

perhaps

perhaps the<00:02:55.440> way<00:02:55.760> forward<00:02:56.160> i<00:02:56.239> mean<00:02:56.480> i<00:02:56.560> think<00:02:56.720> there<00:02:56.800> was

the way forward i mean i think there was

the way forward i mean i think there was a<00:02:56.959> big<00:02:57.120> yougov<00:02:57.680> survey<00:02:58.239> saying<00:02:58.640> that

a big yougov survey saying that

a big yougov survey saying that two-thirds<00:02:59.519> of<00:02:59.760> people<00:03:00.159> who<00:03:00.720> have<00:03:00.879> refused

two-thirds of people who have refused

two-thirds of people who have refused the<00:03:01.599> covid<00:03:02.000> vaccine<00:03:03.120> would<00:03:03.440> be<00:03:04.080> less<00:03:04.480> likely

the covid vaccine would be less likely

the covid vaccine would be less likely to<00:03:05.040> change<00:03:05.360> their<00:03:05.599> minds<00:03:06.000> if<00:03:06.319> they<00:03:06.560> brought<00:03:06.800> in

to change their minds if they brought in

to change their minds if they brought in vaccine<00:03:07.760> passports<00:03:08.400> for<00:03:08.640> instance<00:03:09.440> well<00:03:09.920> i

vaccine passports for instance well i

vaccine passports for instance well i mean<00:03:10.560> mandatory<00:03:11.040> vaccines<00:03:11.599> are

mean mandatory vaccines are

mean mandatory vaccines are one<00:03:12.879> very<00:03:13.200> big<00:03:13.440> step<00:03:14.159> further<00:03:14.560> than<00:03:14.800> that<00:03:15.440> and

one very big step further than that and

one very big step further than that and as<00:03:15.920> annabelle<00:03:16.239> says<00:03:16.480> would<00:03:16.640> that<00:03:16.879> not<00:03:17.040> make<00:03:17.280> it

as annabelle says would that not make it

as annabelle says would that not make it counterproductive

counterproductive

counterproductive yeah<00:03:19.920> to<00:03:20.080> be<00:03:20.159> honest<00:03:20.400> you're<00:03:20.560> not<00:03:20.720> going<00:03:20.800> to

yeah to be honest you're not going to

yeah to be honest you're not going to get<00:03:21.040> much<00:03:21.200> disagreement<00:03:21.680> from<00:03:21.760> me<00:03:21.840> here<00:03:22.000> i

get much disagreement from me here i

get much disagreement from me here i think<00:03:22.239> annabelle's<00:03:22.640> covered<00:03:22.959> it<00:03:23.120> very<00:03:23.360> well

think annabelle's covered it very well

think annabelle's covered it very well you<00:03:23.680> know<00:03:23.840> we've<00:03:24.000> got<00:03:24.159> problems<00:03:24.560> in<00:03:24.640> some

you know we've got problems in some

you know we've got problems in some european<00:03:25.200> countries<00:03:25.519> if<00:03:25.599> you<00:03:25.680> look<00:03:25.760> at<00:03:25.840> what's

european countries if you look at what's

european countries if you look at what's happening<00:03:26.239> in<00:03:26.319> germany<00:03:26.720> austria<00:03:27.519> these

happening in germany austria these

happening in germany austria these countries<00:03:28.159> rolled<00:03:28.319> the<00:03:28.400> vaccine<00:03:28.799> out

countries rolled the vaccine out

countries rolled the vaccine out everybody's<00:03:29.280> been<00:03:29.440> up<00:03:29.519> in<00:03:29.599> the<00:03:29.680> vaccine<00:03:30.159> yet

everybody's been up in the vaccine yet

everybody's been up in the vaccine yet they<00:03:30.480> tried<00:03:30.720> to<00:03:30.799> reopen<00:03:31.280> and<00:03:31.360> they've<00:03:31.519> seen

they tried to reopen and they've seen

they tried to reopen and they've seen again<00:03:32.159> rapid<00:03:32.560> growth<00:03:32.799> in<00:03:32.879> coving<00:03:33.280> so<00:03:33.440> this

again rapid growth in coving so this

again rapid growth in coving so this raises<00:03:33.840> the<00:03:34.000> question<00:03:34.239> you<00:03:34.319> know<00:03:34.799> what<00:03:34.959> can

raises the question you know what can

raises the question you know what can you<00:03:35.200> do<00:03:35.360> in<00:03:35.440> this<00:03:35.519> situation<00:03:35.920> if<00:03:36.000> you<00:03:36.080> look<00:03:36.239> at

you do in this situation if you look at

you do in this situation if you look at germany<00:03:36.640> they've<00:03:36.879> got<00:03:37.280> vaccine<00:03:37.680> coverage<00:03:38.000> of

germany they've got vaccine coverage of

germany they've got vaccine coverage of about<00:03:38.400> 66<00:03:39.360> and<00:03:39.519> you<00:03:39.599> know<00:03:39.760> um

about 66 and you know um

about 66 and you know um what<00:03:41.040> we've<00:03:41.200> seen<00:03:41.360> from<00:03:41.519> the<00:03:41.599> numbers<00:03:41.840> is

what we've seen from the numbers is

what we've seen from the numbers is that's<00:03:42.080> not<00:03:42.239> enough<00:03:42.480> to<00:03:42.640> stop<00:03:42.879> exponential

that's not enough to stop exponential

that's not enough to stop exponential growth<00:03:43.599> so<00:03:43.760> what<00:03:43.920> do<00:03:44.000> you<00:03:44.159> do<00:03:44.480> and<00:03:44.640> um<00:03:44.879> i<00:03:44.959> think

growth so what do you do and um i think

growth so what do you do and um i think annabelle<00:03:45.440> raised<00:03:45.680> a<00:03:45.760> great<00:03:45.920> point<00:03:46.080> when<00:03:46.159> we

annabelle raised a great point when we

annabelle raised a great point when we talk<00:03:46.400> about<00:03:46.640> payments<00:03:47.040> i<00:03:47.120> mean<00:03:47.680> let's<00:03:47.840> look<00:03:48.000> at

talk about payments i mean let's look at

talk about payments i mean let's look at what's<00:03:48.319> happened<00:03:48.480> i<00:03:48.560> think<00:03:48.640> the<00:03:48.799> big

what's happened i think the big

what's happened i think the big criminally<00:03:49.920> under<00:03:50.480> undercover<00:03:50.959> story<00:03:51.120> in<00:03:51.280> the

criminally under undercover story in the

criminally under undercover story in the last<00:03:51.680> one<00:03:52.080> year<00:03:52.319> and<00:03:52.400> a<00:03:52.480> half<00:03:52.799> is<00:03:52.879> the<00:03:53.120> huge

last one year and a half is the huge

last one year and a half is the huge amount<00:03:53.519> of<00:03:53.599> money<00:03:53.840> that<00:03:53.920> billionaires<00:03:54.319> have

amount of money that billionaires have

amount of money that billionaires have made<00:03:54.640> during<00:03:54.879> covert<00:03:55.360> 106<00:03:56.080> billion<00:03:56.400> pounds

made during covert 106 billion pounds

made during covert 106 billion pounds made<00:03:56.799> by<00:03:56.959> billionaires<00:03:58.000> in<00:03:58.080> this<00:03:58.319> country

made by billionaires in this country

made by billionaires in this country just<00:03:58.879> during<00:03:59.120> cover<00:03:59.439> the<00:03:59.519> biggest<00:03:59.840> ever

just during cover the biggest ever

just during cover the biggest ever one-year<00:04:00.319> increase<00:04:00.640> in<00:04:00.720> wealth<00:04:01.519> that's<00:04:01.760> a<00:04:01.840> lot

one-year increase in wealth that's a lot

one-year increase in wealth that's a lot of<00:04:02.000> money<00:04:02.319> if<00:04:02.480> we<00:04:02.560> use<00:04:02.720> that<00:04:02.879> money<00:04:03.120> we<00:04:03.280> could

of money if we use that money we could

of money if we use that money we could perhaps<00:04:03.680> give<00:04:03.840> some<00:04:04.000> incentives<00:04:04.799> for<00:04:04.959> people

perhaps give some incentives for people

perhaps give some incentives for people to<00:04:05.280> get<00:04:05.360> vaccines<00:04:05.760> and<00:04:05.840> if<00:04:06.000> you<00:04:06.080> did<00:04:06.239> that<00:04:06.799> i

to get vaccines and if you did that i

to get vaccines and if you did that i think<00:04:07.040> you'd<00:04:07.360> find<00:04:07.599> it'd<00:04:07.680> be<00:04:07.840> a<00:04:08.000> significant

think you'd find it'd be a significant

think you'd find it'd be a significant how<00:04:08.480> have<00:04:08.560> they<00:04:08.720> made<00:04:08.959> so<00:04:09.120> much<00:04:09.439> money<00:04:09.680> during

how have they made so much money during

how have they made so much money during covert<00:04:10.319> i<00:04:10.400> mean<00:04:10.560> is<00:04:10.720> it<00:04:10.799> because<00:04:11.040> we<00:04:11.360> had<00:04:11.519> a

covert i mean is it because we had a

covert i mean is it because we had a reliance<00:04:12.080> on<00:04:12.400> tech

reliance on tech

reliance on tech and<00:04:13.599> it<00:04:13.680> was<00:04:13.760> some<00:04:13.920> of<00:04:14.000> these<00:04:14.239> big<00:04:14.400> companies

and it was some of these big companies

and it was some of these big companies that<00:04:15.519> they're<00:04:15.760> already<00:04:16.320> supermarkets<00:04:17.120> all<00:04:17.280> of

that they're already supermarkets all of

that they're already supermarkets all of these<00:04:18.079> companies<00:04:18.720> that<00:04:19.280> that<00:04:19.440> we<00:04:19.600> became<00:04:20.000> so

these companies that that we became so

these companies that that we became so reliant<00:04:20.799> is<00:04:21.199> is<00:04:21.359> that

reliant is is that

reliant is is that reliant<00:04:22.560> on<00:04:22.720> is<00:04:22.880> that<00:04:23.040> where<00:04:23.360> it<00:04:23.600> all<00:04:23.840> went

reliant on is that where it all went

reliant on is that where it all went well<00:04:25.120> right<00:04:25.360> at<00:04:25.440> the<00:04:25.520> beginning<00:04:25.840> of<00:04:25.919> covert

well right at the beginning of covert

well right at the beginning of covert the<00:04:26.320> way<00:04:26.479> the<00:04:26.560> government<00:04:26.880> dealt<00:04:27.040> with<00:04:27.199> it<00:04:27.280> is

the way the government dealt with it is

the way the government dealt with it is really<00:04:27.680> interesting<00:04:28.240> they<00:04:28.479> basically

really interesting they basically

really interesting they basically printed<00:04:29.199> 450<00:04:30.000> billion<00:04:30.320> pounds<00:04:30.560> which<00:04:30.639> is<00:04:30.800> an

printed 450 billion pounds which is an

printed 450 billion pounds which is an enormous<00:04:31.280> amount<00:04:31.520> of<00:04:31.600> money<00:04:32.000> and<00:04:32.080> much<00:04:32.320> of

enormous amount of money and much of

enormous amount of money and much of that<00:04:32.479> was<00:04:32.639> used<00:04:32.880> for<00:04:33.040> example<00:04:33.360> to<00:04:33.440> support

that was used for example to support

that was used for example to support ordinary<00:04:34.080> workers<00:04:34.639> the<00:04:34.800> problem<00:04:35.360> is<00:04:35.680> ordinary

ordinary workers the problem is ordinary

ordinary workers the problem is ordinary workers<00:04:36.400> weren't<00:04:36.560> receiving<00:04:36.880> their<00:04:37.040> wages

workers weren't receiving their wages

workers weren't receiving their wages and<00:04:37.680> that's<00:04:37.919> because<00:04:38.240> people<00:04:38.479> weren't

and that's because people weren't

and that's because people weren't spending<00:04:38.960> money<00:04:39.440> well<00:04:39.680> who<00:04:39.919> spends<00:04:40.160> the<00:04:40.240> most

spending money well who spends the most

spending money well who spends the most money<00:04:41.040> the<00:04:41.199> richest<00:04:41.520> people<00:04:41.759> so<00:04:41.919> what<00:04:42.080> you<00:04:42.160> saw

money the richest people so what you saw

money the richest people so what you saw was<00:04:42.479> the<00:04:42.560> people<00:04:42.800> who<00:04:42.880> have<00:04:42.960> very<00:04:43.199> high

was the people who have very high

was the people who have very high spending<00:04:44.000> especially<00:04:44.560> luxury<00:04:44.960> spending

spending especially luxury spending

spending especially luxury spending started<00:04:45.919> to<00:04:46.000> accumulate<00:04:46.320> huge<00:04:46.560> amounts<00:04:46.800> of

started to accumulate huge amounts of

started to accumulate huge amounts of money<00:04:47.120> ordinary<00:04:47.520> people<00:04:47.759> they're<00:04:48.000> spending

money ordinary people they're spending

money ordinary people they're spending is<00:04:48.479> largely<00:04:48.880> bills<00:04:49.199> things<00:04:49.440> like<00:04:49.600> that<00:04:50.080> they

is largely bills things like that they

is largely bills things like that they had<00:04:50.240> to<00:04:50.320> keep<00:04:50.479> spending<00:04:51.120> but<00:04:51.280> we<00:04:51.440> just<00:04:51.600> saw

had to keep spending but we just saw

had to keep spending but we just saw huge<00:04:52.080> amounts<00:04:52.400> of<00:04:52.479> cash<00:04:52.720> build<00:04:52.960> up<00:04:53.120> in<00:04:53.199> the

huge amounts of cash build up in the

huge amounts of cash build up in the bank<00:04:53.440> accounts<00:04:53.680> of<00:04:53.759> richer<00:04:54.000> people<00:04:54.240> and

bank accounts of richer people and

bank accounts of richer people and that's<00:04:54.560> why<00:04:54.720> you've<00:04:54.880> seen<00:04:55.280> the<00:04:55.440> biggest<00:04:55.919> ever

that's why you've seen the biggest ever

that's why you've seen the biggest ever one-year<00:04:56.560> increase<00:04:56.800> in<00:04:56.880> billionaire<00:04:57.360> wealth

one-year increase in billionaire wealth

one-year increase in billionaire wealth during<00:04:58.320> an<00:04:58.479> economic<00:04:58.800> crisis<00:04:59.520> uh<00:04:59.680> well<00:04:59.919> let's

during an economic crisis uh well let's

during an economic crisis uh well let's talk<00:05:00.320> about<00:05:00.639> where<00:05:01.039> uh<00:05:01.520> i<00:05:01.680> wish<00:05:02.000> tfl<00:05:02.400> had<00:05:02.560> done

talk about where uh i wish tfl had done

talk about where uh i wish tfl had done a<00:05:02.800> little<00:05:03.039> bit<00:05:03.199> of<00:05:03.360> that<00:05:03.680> uh<00:05:04.240> wealth<00:05:05.039> juggling

a little bit of that uh wealth juggling

a little bit of that uh wealth juggling because<00:05:05.919> we're<00:05:06.160> now<00:05:06.400> being<00:05:06.639> threatened

because we're now being threatened

because we're now being threatened here<00:05:08.240> in<00:05:08.639> london<00:05:09.199> and<00:05:09.360> of<00:05:09.440> course<00:05:09.680> it<00:05:09.919> will<00:05:10.479> it

here in london and of course it will it

here in london and of course it will it may<00:05:10.800> be<00:05:10.960> a<00:05:11.039> london<00:05:11.520> story<00:05:12.000> but<00:05:12.160> if<00:05:12.240> you're

may be a london story but if you're

may be a london story but if you're listening<00:05:12.960> and<00:05:13.039> you're<00:05:13.280> a<00:05:13.360> taxpayer<00:05:14.639> um<00:05:15.039> it

listening and you're a taxpayer um it

listening and you're a taxpayer um it will<00:05:15.360> be<00:05:15.520> your<00:05:15.759> tax<00:05:16.160> money<00:05:16.560> that<00:05:16.720> will<00:05:16.880> be

will be your tax money that will be

will be your tax money that will be bailing<00:05:18.080> out<00:05:18.320> tfl<00:05:19.199> and<00:05:19.360> that's<00:05:19.680> wherever<00:05:20.080> you

bailing out tfl and that's wherever you

bailing out tfl and that's wherever you are<00:05:20.880> here<00:05:21.199> in<00:05:21.440> the<00:05:21.680> uk<00:05:22.080> but<00:05:22.240> we're<00:05:22.479> now<00:05:22.720> hearing

are here in the uk but we're now hearing

are here in the uk but we're now hearing that<00:05:23.759> due<00:05:24.080> to<00:05:24.400> the<00:05:24.560> financial<00:05:25.120> crisis<00:05:25.520> that

that due to the financial crisis that

that due to the financial crisis that tfl<00:05:26.479> have<00:05:26.800> found<00:05:27.120> themselves<00:05:27.759> in

tfl have found themselves in

tfl have found themselves in sadiq<00:05:29.039> khan

sadiq khan

sadiq khan who<00:05:30.639> i've<00:05:30.960> never<00:05:31.120> been<00:05:31.360> a<00:05:31.440> fan<00:05:31.680> of<00:05:32.080> and<00:05:32.400> who<00:05:32.800> is

who i've never been a fan of and who is

who i've never been a fan of and who is i<00:05:33.919> believe<00:05:34.400> actually<00:05:35.039> now

i believe actually now

i believe actually now holding<00:05:36.560> the<00:05:36.720> government<00:05:37.199> to<00:05:37.360> ransom<00:05:38.320> because

holding the government to ransom because

holding the government to ransom because he's<00:05:38.880> saying

he's saying

he's saying that<00:05:40.160> he<00:05:40.320> may<00:05:40.479> have<00:05:40.639> to<00:05:41.039> close<00:05:41.680> altogether<00:05:42.479> one

that he may have to close altogether one

that he may have to close altogether one of<00:05:42.960> the<00:05:43.120> big<00:05:43.440> tube<00:05:43.680> lines<00:05:44.000> in<00:05:44.160> london<00:05:44.880> maybe

of the big tube lines in london maybe

of the big tube lines in london maybe the<00:05:45.360> bakerloo<00:05:45.919> line<00:05:46.720> maybe<00:05:47.600> one<00:05:47.840> of<00:05:48.000> the

the bakerloo line maybe one of the

the bakerloo line maybe one of the others<00:05:48.639> i<00:05:48.720> mean

others i mean

others i mean gary<00:05:50.000> how<00:05:50.240> has

gary how has

gary how has a<00:05:51.360> multi-billion<00:05:52.639> pound

a multi-billion pound

a multi-billion pound uh<00:05:54.160> entity<00:05:54.720> like<00:05:55.039> tfl<00:05:56.160> found<00:05:56.560> themselves<00:05:57.120> in<00:05:57.280> a

uh entity like tfl found themselves in a

uh entity like tfl found themselves in a situation<00:05:57.840> where<00:05:58.000> they've<00:05:58.479> needed<00:05:58.800> to<00:05:58.880> go<00:05:59.039> to

situation where they've needed to go to

situation where they've needed to go to the<00:05:59.199> government<00:05:59.520> where<00:05:59.680> they<00:05:59.840> i<00:05:59.919> think

the government where they i think

the government where they i think they've<00:06:00.160> been<00:06:00.240> given<00:06:00.560> four<00:06:00.800> billion<00:06:01.199> pounds

they've been given four billion pounds

they've been given four billion pounds already

already

already well

well

well quite<00:06:04.800> simply<00:06:05.199> it's<00:06:05.280> because<00:06:05.680> much<00:06:06.000> much

quite simply it's because much much

quite simply it's because much much fewer<00:06:06.400> people<00:06:06.720> are<00:06:07.199> taking<00:06:07.440> public<00:06:07.759> transport

fewer people are taking public transport

fewer people are taking public transport and<00:06:08.240> that's<00:06:08.400> massively<00:06:08.720> decreased<00:06:09.280> their

and that's massively decreased their

and that's massively decreased their fare<00:06:10.160> intake<00:06:10.639> basically<00:06:11.360> and<00:06:11.600> you<00:06:11.680> know

fare intake basically and you know

fare intake basically and you know you<00:06:12.479> know<00:06:12.560> i'm<00:06:12.720> from<00:06:12.960> london<00:06:13.360> i<00:06:13.440> live<00:06:13.600> in

you know i'm from london i live in

you know i'm from london i live in london<00:06:14.000> i've<00:06:14.240> taken<00:06:14.560> the<00:06:14.720> underground<00:06:15.120> a<00:06:15.199> lot

london i've taken the underground a lot

london i've taken the underground a lot but<00:06:15.680> it's<00:06:15.840> not<00:06:16.000> just<00:06:16.160> the<00:06:16.319> london<00:06:16.639> story<00:06:17.039> you

but it's not just the london story you

but it's not just the london story you know<00:06:17.280> we've<00:06:17.520> seen

know we've seen

know we've seen the<00:06:18.880> government<00:06:20.240> is<00:06:20.880> unwilling<00:06:21.280> to<00:06:21.440> give

the government is unwilling to give

the government is unwilling to give money<00:06:21.759> to<00:06:21.840> tf<00:06:22.240> asking<00:06:22.479> for<00:06:22.560> 1.7<00:06:23.039> billion

money to tf asking for 1.7 billion

money to tf asking for 1.7 billion pounds<00:06:23.680> but<00:06:23.840> we<00:06:24.000> also<00:06:24.319> saw<00:06:24.560> that<00:06:24.720> i'm<00:06:24.800> willing

pounds but we also saw that i'm willing

pounds but we also saw that i'm willing to<00:06:25.280> make<00:06:25.520> a<00:06:25.600> railway<00:06:25.919> to<00:06:26.080> leeds<00:06:26.479> and<00:06:26.639> you<00:06:26.800> know

to make a railway to leeds and you know

to make a railway to leeds and you know the<00:06:27.440> government<00:06:27.759> is<00:06:27.840> saying<00:06:28.000> we<00:06:28.080> don't<00:06:28.240> have

the government is saying we don't have

the government is saying we don't have money<00:06:28.639> to

money to

money to provide<00:06:29.759> a<00:06:30.080> quality<00:06:30.479> public<00:06:30.720> transport

provide a quality public transport

provide a quality public transport system<00:06:31.280> for<00:06:31.360> london<00:06:31.759> and<00:06:31.919> also<00:06:32.160> equality

system for london and also equality

system for london and also equality public<00:06:32.880> transport<00:06:33.199> system<00:06:33.360> for<00:06:33.520> the<00:06:33.600> north

public transport system for the north

public transport system for the north but<00:06:34.319> you<00:06:34.400> know<00:06:34.639> tfo<00:06:35.039> wants<00:06:35.280> 1.7<00:06:35.840> billion

but you know tfo wants 1.7 billion

but you know tfo wants 1.7 billion pounds<00:06:36.479> okay<00:06:37.039> one<00:06:37.440> individual<00:06:37.840> billionaire

pounds okay one individual billionaire

pounds okay one individual billionaire lakshmi<00:06:38.800> mattel<00:06:39.199> increases<00:06:39.600> wealth<00:06:39.840> by<00:06:40.000> seven

lakshmi mattel increases wealth by seven

lakshmi mattel increases wealth by seven billion<00:06:40.560> pounds<00:06:40.800> during<00:06:41.039> kobe<00:06:41.759> so<00:06:41.919> that<00:06:42.160> one

billion pounds during kobe so that one

billion pounds during kobe so that one individual<00:06:43.360> could<00:06:43.520> pay<00:06:43.759> for<00:06:43.840> it<00:06:43.919> three<00:06:44.160> times

individual could pay for it three times

individual could pay for it three times over<00:06:44.639> and<00:06:44.720> yet<00:06:44.880> here<00:06:45.039> we<00:06:45.199> are<00:06:45.520> london<00:06:46.000> the

over and yet here we are london the

over and yet here we are london the greatest<00:06:46.400> city<00:06:46.720> in<00:06:46.800> western<00:06:47.120> europe<00:06:47.680> we<00:06:47.840> can't

greatest city in western europe we can't

greatest city in western europe we can't afford<00:06:48.160> a<00:06:48.240> public<00:06:48.479> channel<00:06:48.720> yeah<00:06:48.880> but<00:06:49.360> really

afford a public channel yeah but really

afford a public channel yeah but really you<00:06:50.000> know<00:06:50.319> but<00:06:50.560> i'm<00:06:50.720> sorry<00:06:51.120> that<00:06:51.599> mr<00:06:51.840> mattel

you know but i'm sorry that mr mattel

you know but i'm sorry that mr mattel made<00:06:52.960> so<00:06:53.360> many<00:06:53.680> billions<00:06:54.240> but<00:06:54.639> i'd<00:06:54.880> rather<00:06:55.199> he

made so many billions but i'd rather he

made so many billions but i'd rather he made<00:06:55.599> billions<00:06:56.000> than<00:06:56.160> have<00:06:56.319> the<00:06:56.400> kind<00:06:56.639> of

made billions than have the kind of

made billions than have the kind of society<00:06:57.199> where<00:06:57.360> that<00:06:57.520> money<00:06:57.840> is<00:06:58.080> taken

society where that money is taken

society where that money is taken from<00:06:59.520> that<00:06:59.840> person<00:07:00.800> because<00:07:01.360> we're<00:07:01.599> annoyed

from that person because we're annoyed

from that person because we're annoyed about<00:07:02.800> tfl<00:07:03.520> when<00:07:03.840> many<00:07:04.160> of<00:07:04.319> these<00:07:04.560> entities

about tfl when many of these entities

about tfl when many of these entities like<00:07:05.199> tfl<00:07:05.599> have<00:07:05.840> billions<00:07:06.319> and<00:07:06.479> billions

like tfl have billions and billions

like tfl have billions and billions anyway<00:07:08.720> i<00:07:08.800> mean<00:07:08.960> i<00:07:09.039> don't<00:07:09.199> know<00:07:09.440> annabelle<00:07:10.160> i<00:07:10.319> i

anyway i mean i don't know annabelle i i

anyway i mean i don't know annabelle i i i<00:07:10.960> i<00:07:11.199> get<00:07:11.599> the<00:07:11.759> point

i i get the point

i i get the point from<00:07:13.199> gary<00:07:13.680> that<00:07:14.000> it's<00:07:14.240> it<00:07:14.560> sticks<00:07:14.800> in<00:07:14.960> your

from gary that it's it sticks in your

from gary that it's it sticks in your crawl<00:07:15.440> a<00:07:15.520> little<00:07:15.680> bit<00:07:15.840> to<00:07:16.000> think<00:07:16.160> that<00:07:16.319> all

crawl a little bit to think that all

crawl a little bit to think that all these<00:07:16.560> billionaires<00:07:17.199> have<00:07:17.280> become<00:07:17.919> bigger

these billionaires have become bigger

these billionaires have become bigger billionaires

billionaires

billionaires but<00:07:20.000> a<00:07:20.080> part<00:07:20.240> of<00:07:20.319> me<00:07:20.400> thinks<00:07:20.639> fair<00:07:20.880> play<00:07:21.039> to

but a part of me thinks fair play to

but a part of me thinks fair play to them<00:07:21.440> i<00:07:21.599> really<00:07:21.840> don't<00:07:22.000> want<00:07:22.160> the<00:07:22.240> government

them i really don't want the government

them i really don't want the government interfering<00:07:23.199> with<00:07:23.360> that

interfering with that

interfering with that yeah<00:07:24.720> i<00:07:24.880> find<00:07:25.120> gary's<00:07:25.680> argument<00:07:26.400> slightly

yeah i find gary's argument slightly

yeah i find gary's argument slightly well<00:07:27.280> very<00:07:27.919> strange<00:07:28.560> in<00:07:28.720> fact<00:07:29.280> the<00:07:29.520> idea<00:07:30.000> that

well very strange in fact the idea that

well very strange in fact the idea that we<00:07:31.280> can<00:07:31.440> just<00:07:31.680> pay<00:07:32.000> for<00:07:32.160> whatever<00:07:32.560> we<00:07:32.720> like<00:07:32.960> the

we can just pay for whatever we like the

we can just pay for whatever we like the mistakes<00:07:33.440> that<00:07:33.520> are<00:07:33.599> made<00:07:33.840> in<00:07:33.919> the<00:07:34.000> public

mistakes that are made in the public

mistakes that are made in the public sector<00:07:34.800> by<00:07:35.360> seizing<00:07:35.919> the<00:07:36.080> assets<00:07:36.960> of<00:07:37.280> some<00:07:37.520> of

sector by seizing the assets of some of

sector by seizing the assets of some of the<00:07:37.680> wealthiest<00:07:38.319> in<00:07:38.479> society<00:07:39.680> one<00:07:40.000> big

the wealthiest in society one big

the wealthiest in society one big problem<00:07:40.720> with<00:07:40.960> that<00:07:41.120> and<00:07:41.199> i'm<00:07:41.280> sure<00:07:41.520> gary

problem with that and i'm sure gary

problem with that and i'm sure gary wouldn't<00:07:42.160> disagree<00:07:43.120> is<00:07:43.280> that<00:07:43.360> you're<00:07:43.520> sending

wouldn't disagree is that you're sending

wouldn't disagree is that you're sending a<00:07:44.000> very<00:07:44.240> strong<00:07:44.720> signal<00:07:45.280> to<00:07:45.520> the<00:07:45.680> billionaires

a very strong signal to the billionaires

a very strong signal to the billionaires out<00:07:46.560> there<00:07:46.879> that<00:07:47.039> they<00:07:47.440> should<00:07:47.759> not<00:07:48.319> move<00:07:49.039> uh

out there that they should not move uh

out there that they should not move uh any<00:07:49.680> of<00:07:49.840> their<00:07:50.160> wealth<00:07:50.400> their<00:07:50.639> companies

any of their wealth their companies

any of their wealth their companies their<00:07:51.360> assets<00:07:51.919> to<00:07:52.240> the<00:07:52.400> uk<00:07:53.280> because<00:07:53.759> the

their assets to the uk because the

their assets to the uk because the treasury<00:07:54.800> might

treasury might

treasury might seize<00:07:56.400> them<00:07:56.960> at<00:07:57.120> any<00:07:57.360> moment<00:07:57.919> so<00:07:58.400> um<00:07:58.720> no<00:07:58.879> i

seize them at any moment so um no i

seize them at any moment so um no i definitely<00:07:59.360> don't<00:07:59.680> agree<00:08:00.080> with<00:08:00.240> the<00:08:00.479> idea

definitely don't agree with the idea

definitely don't agree with the idea that<00:08:00.960> we<00:08:01.120> just<00:08:01.360> uh

that we just uh

that we just uh take<00:08:02.400> as<00:08:02.560> much<00:08:02.800> money<00:08:03.120> as<00:08:03.199> we<00:08:03.360> please<00:08:03.680> off<00:08:03.919> uh

take as much money as we please off uh

take as much money as we please off uh the<00:08:04.319> wealthy<00:08:04.639> however<00:08:05.120> many<00:08:05.360> billions<00:08:05.759> we

the wealthy however many billions we

the wealthy however many billions we need<00:08:06.240> to<00:08:06.879> uh<00:08:07.199> plug<00:08:07.840> gaps<00:08:08.319> um

need to uh plug gaps um

need to uh plug gaps um that<00:08:09.520> are<00:08:09.599> the<00:08:09.759> consequence<00:08:10.240> of<00:08:10.319> mistakes

that are the consequence of mistakes

that are the consequence of mistakes made<00:08:11.520> by<00:08:12.000> public<00:08:12.319> sector<00:08:12.639> officials<00:08:13.199> as<00:08:13.440> for

made by public sector officials as for

made by public sector officials as for tfl<00:08:14.639> it's<00:08:14.800> obviously<00:08:15.360> a<00:08:15.919> mess<00:08:16.319> but<00:08:16.479> i<00:08:16.560> think

tfl it's obviously a mess but i think

tfl it's obviously a mess but i think that<00:08:16.879> the<00:08:16.960> point<00:08:17.280> that<00:08:17.759> you<00:08:17.919> know<00:08:18.160> that<00:08:18.319> gary

that the point that you know that gary

that the point that you know that gary is<00:08:18.800> getting<00:08:19.120> wrong<00:08:19.440> here<00:08:19.840> is<00:08:20.080> that

is getting wrong here is that

is getting wrong here is that sadiq<00:08:21.919> khan<00:08:22.560> did<00:08:22.800> not<00:08:23.039> put<00:08:23.440> tfl<00:08:24.080> in<00:08:24.240> a<00:08:24.400> state<00:08:25.120> um

sadiq khan did not put tfl in a state um

sadiq khan did not put tfl in a state um where<00:08:25.919> it<00:08:26.000> needed<00:08:26.479> a<00:08:26.639> bailout<00:08:27.280> during<00:08:27.520> the

where it needed a bailout during the

where it needed a bailout during the coronavirus<00:08:28.240> fundamental<00:08:28.639> rather<00:08:28.960> the

coronavirus fundamental rather the

coronavirus fundamental rather the coronavirus<00:08:29.840> pandemic<00:08:30.400> is<00:08:30.639> not<00:08:30.960> what<00:08:31.599> uh

coronavirus pandemic is not what uh

coronavirus pandemic is not what uh brought<00:08:32.399> about<00:08:32.640> the<00:08:32.800> problems<00:08:33.120> with<00:08:33.279> tfl<00:08:34.240> when

brought about the problems with tfl when

brought about the problems with tfl when the<00:08:34.560> sun<00:08:34.800> was<00:08:35.039> shining<00:08:35.519> sevik<00:08:36.000> khan<00:08:36.560> uh<00:08:36.880> frozen

the sun was shining sevik khan uh frozen

the sun was shining sevik khan uh frozen froze<00:08:38.479> fairs

froze fairs

froze fairs freezing<00:08:39.919> fares<00:08:40.320> like<00:08:40.640> rent<00:08:40.880> controls<00:08:41.680> it

freezing fares like rent controls it

freezing fares like rent controls it never<00:08:42.959> works<00:08:43.680> um<00:08:44.320> you<00:08:44.399> know<00:08:44.560> and<00:08:44.640> now<00:08:44.800> we're<00:08:44.959> in

never works um you know and now we're in

never works um you know and now we're in a<00:08:45.200> situation<00:08:45.839> where<00:08:46.080> he<00:08:46.240> can't<00:08:46.480> justify<00:08:46.880> the

a situation where he can't justify the

a situation where he can't justify the continuation<00:08:47.760> of<00:08:47.920> the<00:08:48.560> bakerloo<00:08:49.200> line<00:08:49.519> we've

continuation of the bakerloo line we've

continuation of the bakerloo line we've got<00:08:50.320> uh<00:08:50.560> the<00:08:50.720> mayor<00:08:50.959> of<00:08:51.120> london<00:08:51.760> um<00:08:52.240> who's<00:08:52.480> been

got uh the mayor of london um who's been

got uh the mayor of london um who's been a<00:08:52.800> leading<00:08:53.120> proponent<00:08:53.680> of<00:08:53.839> health<00:08:54.240> and<00:08:54.320> safety

a leading proponent of health and safety

a leading proponent of health and safety really<00:08:55.040> indulging<00:08:55.519> in<00:08:55.680> mass<00:08:56.000> theater<00:08:56.800> and

really indulging in mass theater and

really indulging in mass theater and having<00:08:58.000> um

having um

having um officials

officials

officials don't<00:09:00.240> forget<00:09:00.560> the<00:09:00.720> cycle<00:09:01.120> lane<00:09:01.519> so

don't forget the cycle lane so

don't forget the cycle lane so don't<00:09:02.640> forget<00:09:02.959> the<00:09:03.040> cycle<00:09:03.440> lanes<00:09:03.760> everywhere

don't forget the cycle lanes everywhere

don't forget the cycle lanes everywhere the<00:09:05.040> cycle<00:09:05.360> lanes<00:09:05.680> everywhere<00:09:06.080> but<00:09:06.399> he's

the cycle lanes everywhere but he's

the cycle lanes everywhere but he's really<00:09:06.880> not<00:09:07.120> sending<00:09:07.440> a<00:09:07.519> message<00:09:08.160> to<00:09:08.480> people

really not sending a message to people

really not sending a message to people that<00:09:09.040> london<00:09:09.519> is<00:09:09.839> open<00:09:10.160> that<00:09:10.320> it's<00:09:10.560> welcoming

that london is open that it's welcoming

that london is open that it's welcoming um<00:09:11.760> that<00:09:12.000> it<00:09:12.080> wants<00:09:12.480> tourists<00:09:13.040> um<00:09:13.279> he's<00:09:13.440> not

um that it wants tourists um he's not

um that it wants tourists um he's not encouraging<00:09:14.399> commuters<00:09:15.040> to<00:09:15.360> take<00:09:15.600> the<00:09:15.760> tube

encouraging commuters to take the tube

encouraging commuters to take the tube because<00:09:16.240> he's<00:09:16.480> making<00:09:16.800> the<00:09:16.880> experience<00:09:17.360> as

because he's making the experience as

because he's making the experience as unpleasant<00:09:18.240> as<00:09:18.399> it<00:09:18.480> really<00:09:18.720> could<00:09:19.040> possibly

unpleasant as it really could possibly

unpleasant as it really could possibly have<00:09:20.320> been<00:09:20.880> in<00:09:21.040> terms<00:09:21.360> of<00:09:21.760> what<00:09:21.920> i<00:09:22.000> think<00:09:22.160> the

have been in terms of what i think the

have been in terms of what i think the solutions<00:09:23.040> are<00:09:23.360> um<00:09:23.839> in<00:09:23.920> the<00:09:24.080> short<00:09:24.320> term<00:09:24.560> he

solutions are um in the short term he

solutions are um in the short term he does<00:09:25.040> need<00:09:25.279> to<00:09:25.440> hike<00:09:25.760> fares<00:09:26.480> um<00:09:26.800> if<00:09:27.200> your<00:09:27.440> fares

does need to hike fares um if your fares

does need to hike fares um if your fares uh<00:09:28.240> or<00:09:28.320> the<00:09:28.480> income<00:09:28.720> from<00:09:28.959> fares<00:09:29.360> is<00:09:29.519> not

uh or the income from fares is not

uh or the income from fares is not covering<00:09:30.080> the<00:09:30.320> so<00:09:30.800> is<00:09:30.959> that<00:09:31.360> preferable

covering the so is that preferable

covering the so is that preferable to<00:09:32.959> taxpayers<00:09:33.760> across<00:09:34.240> the<00:09:34.399> uk

to taxpayers across the uk

to taxpayers across the uk because<00:09:35.920> again<00:09:36.480> i<00:09:36.560> just<00:09:36.720> want<00:09:36.880> to<00:09:36.959> stress<00:09:37.279> this

because again i just want to stress this

because again i just want to stress this is<00:09:37.680> not<00:09:38.000> a<00:09:38.160> london<00:09:38.640> story<00:09:39.279> it<00:09:39.440> is<00:09:39.600> a<00:09:39.760> story<00:09:40.080> that

is not a london story it is a story that

is not a london story it is a story that affects<00:09:40.720> everyone<00:09:41.600> across<00:09:42.080> the<00:09:42.240> uk<00:09:43.120> and<00:09:43.360> it's

affects everyone across the uk and it's

affects everyone across the uk and it's a<00:09:43.600> story<00:09:44.000> as<00:09:44.080> well<00:09:44.240> that<00:09:44.399> may<00:09:44.560> well<00:09:44.720> be

a story as well that may well be

a story as well that may well be mirrored<00:09:45.200> across<00:09:45.519> the<00:09:45.680> uk<00:09:46.080> as<00:09:46.240> gary<00:09:46.560> just

mirrored across the uk as gary just

mirrored across the uk as gary just pointed<00:09:47.040> out<00:09:47.200> when<00:09:47.360> it<00:09:47.440> comes<00:09:47.760> to<00:09:48.399> us<00:09:48.720> seeing

pointed out when it comes to us seeing

pointed out when it comes to us seeing um

um

um various<00:09:51.040> train<00:09:51.440> services<00:09:52.000> being<00:09:52.320> axed<00:09:52.720> as<00:09:52.880> a

various train services being axed as a

various train services being axed as a result<00:09:53.600> of<00:09:54.000> financial<00:09:54.560> problems

result of financial problems

result of financial problems is<00:09:55.760> the<00:09:55.920> solution<00:09:56.399> not<00:09:56.560> to<00:09:56.720> take<00:09:56.959> taxpayers

is the solution not to take taxpayers

is the solution not to take taxpayers money<00:09:57.680> from<00:09:57.839> across<00:09:58.080> the<00:09:58.240> uk

money from across the uk

money from across the uk well<00:10:00.160> i<00:10:00.320> don't<00:10:00.560> really<00:10:00.720> think<00:10:00.959> it's

well i don't really think it's

well i don't really think it's reasonable<00:10:01.600> to<00:10:01.839> expect<00:10:02.560> often<00:10:02.959> poorer

reasonable to expect often poorer

reasonable to expect often poorer taxpayers<00:10:03.839> to<00:10:04.160> subsidize<00:10:05.120> wealthy

taxpayers to subsidize wealthy

taxpayers to subsidize wealthy commuters<00:10:06.720> who<00:10:06.880> are<00:10:07.040> often<00:10:07.760> uh<00:10:08.079> wealthier<00:10:08.560> or

commuters who are often uh wealthier or

commuters who are often uh wealthier or earning<00:10:09.279> above<00:10:09.839> the<00:10:10.480> national<00:10:11.120> average<00:10:11.760> i

earning above the national average i

earning above the national average i think<00:10:12.079> it'd<00:10:12.240> be<00:10:12.399> much<00:10:12.640> better<00:10:12.959> to<00:10:13.279> hike<00:10:13.519> the

think it'd be much better to hike the

think it'd be much better to hike the fares<00:10:14.000> for<00:10:14.160> those<00:10:14.399> who<00:10:14.720> intend<00:10:15.040> to<00:10:15.279> use

fares for those who intend to use

fares for those who intend to use transport<00:10:16.720> for<00:10:16.880> london<00:10:17.360> or<00:10:17.760> the<00:10:17.920> railway

transport for london or the railway

transport for london or the railway network<00:10:19.040> i<00:10:19.200> think<00:10:19.279> we<00:10:19.440> should<00:10:19.920> ditch<00:10:20.160> as<00:10:20.320> i

network i think we should ditch as i

network i think we should ditch as i said<00:10:20.640> before<00:10:21.040> the<00:10:21.200> mask<00:10:21.839> theater<00:10:22.399> and<00:10:22.800> make

said before the mask theater and make

said before the mask theater and make communities<00:10:23.760> but<00:10:23.839> then<00:10:24.160> you<00:10:24.240> see<00:10:24.399> we've<00:10:24.480> got

communities but then you see we've got

communities but then you see we've got the<00:10:24.720> problem<00:10:25.200> again<00:10:25.920> which<00:10:26.160> again<00:10:26.560> is<00:10:26.720> faced

the problem again which again is faced

the problem again which again is faced across<00:10:27.360> the<00:10:27.519> uk

across the uk

across the uk the<00:10:29.120> we're<00:10:29.360> all<00:10:29.680> told<00:10:30.000> that<00:10:30.160> we<00:10:30.240> need<00:10:30.399> to<00:10:30.480> be

the we're all told that we need to be

the we're all told that we need to be getting<00:10:30.880> on<00:10:30.959> public<00:10:31.279> transport<00:10:31.839> because<00:10:32.079> the

getting on public transport because the

getting on public transport because the world<00:10:32.480> is<00:10:32.560> going<00:10:32.800> to<00:10:32.880> hell<00:10:33.040> in<00:10:33.200> a<00:10:33.279> handcart<00:10:33.839> if

world is going to hell in a handcart if

world is going to hell in a handcart if i<00:10:34.160> decide<00:10:34.560> that<00:10:34.640> i'm<00:10:34.800> gonna<00:10:35.279> get<00:10:35.440> in<00:10:35.600> my<00:10:35.760> little

i decide that i'm gonna get in my little

i decide that i'm gonna get in my little volkswagen<00:10:36.560> and<00:10:36.640> go<00:10:36.800> to<00:10:36.959> sainsbury's<00:10:37.519> rather

volkswagen and go to sainsbury's rather

volkswagen and go to sainsbury's rather than<00:10:37.839> getting<00:10:38.079> on<00:10:38.240> the<00:10:38.320> bus<00:10:38.560> then<00:10:38.800> i'm

than getting on the bus then i'm

than getting on the bus then i'm literally<00:10:39.600> i<00:10:39.760> may<00:10:39.920> as<00:10:40.000> well<00:10:40.160> go<00:10:40.399> and<00:10:40.720> pour

literally i may as well go and pour

literally i may as well go and pour petrol<00:10:41.519> on<00:10:41.839> rainforests<00:10:42.800> and<00:10:43.200> i'm<00:10:43.440> an<00:10:43.680> evil

petrol on rainforests and i'm an evil

petrol on rainforests and i'm an evil person<00:10:44.959> well<00:10:45.200> none<00:10:45.360> of<00:10:45.519> that's<00:10:45.760> gonna<00:10:46.000> happen

person well none of that's gonna happen

person well none of that's gonna happen if<00:10:46.480> across<00:10:46.800> the<00:10:46.959> uk<00:10:47.360> we<00:10:47.519> keep<00:10:48.000> bailing<00:10:48.480> out

if across the uk we keep bailing out

if across the uk we keep bailing out train<00:10:49.680> firms<00:10:50.160> and<00:10:50.320> various<00:10:51.120> uh<00:10:51.519> of<00:10:51.680> these

train firms and various uh of these

train firms and various uh of these organizations<00:10:52.720> if<00:10:52.880> by<00:10:53.040> putting<00:10:53.360> up<00:10:53.600> fairs<00:10:54.399> i

organizations if by putting up fairs i

organizations if by putting up fairs i mean<00:10:54.560> i<00:10:54.640> don't<00:10:54.800> know<00:10:54.959> gary<00:10:55.519> what<00:10:55.680> do<00:10:55.760> you<00:10:55.920> say

mean i don't know gary what do you say

mean i don't know gary what do you say to<00:10:56.240> that

to that

to that it's<00:10:57.519> i<00:10:57.680> i<00:10:57.839> can't<00:10:58.079> deal<00:10:58.240> with<00:10:58.399> this<00:10:58.640> idea<00:10:58.959> that

it's i i can't deal with this idea that

it's i i can't deal with this idea that the<00:10:59.279> your<00:10:59.440> only<00:10:59.680> choices<00:11:00.079> are<00:11:00.160> to<00:11:00.320> raise<00:11:00.560> fares

the your only choices are to raise fares

the your only choices are to raise fares or<00:11:00.959> to<00:11:01.120> tax<00:11:01.360> ordinary<00:11:01.760> people<00:11:02.399> listen<00:11:02.720> the

or to tax ordinary people listen the

or to tax ordinary people listen the average<00:11:03.360> billionaire<00:11:03.839> in<00:11:03.920> this<00:11:04.079> country

average billionaire in this country

average billionaire in this country increased<00:11:05.120> their<00:11:05.279> wealth<00:11:05.600> by<00:11:06.120> 620<00:11:07.200> million

increased their wealth by 620 million

increased their wealth by 620 million pounds<00:11:07.839> during<00:11:08.160> kobe<00:11:08.640> okay<00:11:09.200> you<00:11:09.279> can<00:11:09.440> just

pounds during kobe okay you can just

pounds during kobe okay you can just take<00:11:09.760> the<00:11:09.920> three<00:11:10.240> individuals<00:11:10.800> the<00:11:10.959> midtowns

take the three individuals the midtowns

take the three individuals the midtowns the<00:11:11.440> rubbers<00:11:11.680> the<00:11:11.760> blavatniks<00:11:12.480> they<00:11:12.640> could

the rubbers the blavatniks they could

the rubbers the blavatniks they could pay<00:11:13.360> the<00:11:13.519> 1.7<00:11:14.160> billion<00:11:14.560> pounds<00:11:15.200> needed<00:11:15.600> by

pay the 1.7 billion pounds needed by

pay the 1.7 billion pounds needed by help<00:11:16.320> okay<00:11:16.720> okay

why<00:11:19.360> are<00:11:19.360> you<00:11:19.519> not<00:11:19.600> taxing<00:11:20.079> that<00:11:20.240> we<00:11:20.320> have<00:11:20.399> a

why are you not taxing that we have a

why are you not taxing that we have a pandemic<00:11:21.120> and<00:11:21.200> we<00:11:21.839> we<00:11:22.000> haven't<00:11:22.240> got<00:11:22.320> any

pandemic and we we haven't got any

pandemic and we we haven't got any billionaires<00:11:23.040> left<00:11:23.360> to<00:11:23.440> bail<00:11:23.760> everybody<00:11:24.160> out

billionaires left to bail everybody out

billionaires left to bail everybody out i<00:11:24.560> mean<00:11:24.880> how<00:11:25.600> did<00:11:25.680> you<00:11:25.839> find<00:11:26.000> me<00:11:26.160> dude<00:11:26.320> there's

i mean how did you find me dude there's

i mean how did you find me dude there's 179<00:11:27.279> billionaires<00:11:27.680> in<00:11:27.760> this<00:11:27.920> country<00:11:28.240> okay

179 billionaires in this country okay

179 billionaires in this country okay gary<00:11:29.200> okay<00:11:29.600> one<00:11:29.839> at<00:11:29.920> a<00:11:30.000> time<00:11:30.160> but<00:11:30.320> gary<00:11:30.640> gary<00:11:30.880> i

gary okay one at a time but gary gary i

gary okay one at a time but gary gary i want<00:11:31.360> to<00:11:31.440> drill<00:11:31.600> down<00:11:31.839> how<00:11:32.000> would<00:11:32.240> you<00:11:32.399> go

want to drill down how would you go

want to drill down how would you go about

about

about doing<00:11:34.000> that<00:11:34.160> then<00:11:34.320> so<00:11:34.480> say<00:11:34.640> we've<00:11:34.800> got<00:11:34.880> a

doing that then so say we've got a

doing that then so say we've got a problem

problem

problem let's<00:11:36.000> not<00:11:36.160> make<00:11:36.320> it<00:11:36.480> london<00:11:36.800> let's<00:11:36.959> say

let's not make it london let's say

let's not make it london let's say northern<00:11:37.600> rails<00:11:38.079> need<00:11:38.399> bailing<00:11:38.800> out<00:11:39.040> one<00:11:39.279> day

northern rails need bailing out one day

northern rails need bailing out one day right<00:11:39.760> because<00:11:40.000> there's<00:11:40.160> a<00:11:40.320> terrible<00:11:40.800> problem

right because there's a terrible problem

right because there's a terrible problem up<00:11:41.760> in<00:11:41.839> the<00:11:41.920> north<00:11:42.240> with<00:11:42.399> the<00:11:42.480> railways<00:11:43.120> right

up in the north with the railways right

up in the north with the railways right what<00:11:44.480> is<00:11:44.640> the<00:11:44.800> mechanism<00:11:45.440> by<00:11:45.680> which<00:11:46.320> a

what is the mechanism by which a

what is the mechanism by which a government<00:11:47.040> then<00:11:47.279> says<00:11:47.600> right<00:11:47.760> hang<00:11:48.000> on<00:11:48.079> now

government then says right hang on now

government then says right hang on now let's<00:11:48.720> have<00:11:48.800> a<00:11:48.880> look<00:11:49.200> uh<00:11:49.440> yeah<00:11:49.680> yeah<00:11:49.920> preeti

let's have a look uh yeah yeah preeti

let's have a look uh yeah yeah preeti have<00:11:50.800> you<00:11:50.880> got<00:11:51.040> that<00:11:51.279> list<00:11:51.519> of<00:11:51.600> billionaires

have you got that list of billionaires

have you got that list of billionaires over<00:11:52.560> there<00:11:52.720> preety<00:11:53.120> yeah<00:11:53.279> can<00:11:53.440> you<00:11:53.519> bring<00:11:53.680> it

over there preety yeah can you bring it

over there preety yeah can you bring it in<00:11:53.920> here<00:11:54.160> please<00:11:54.480> right<00:11:55.200> now<00:11:55.360> we<00:11:55.440> did<00:11:55.600> the

in here please right now we did the

in here please right now we did the mattel's<00:11:56.240> last<00:11:56.480> week<00:11:56.720> for<00:11:56.880> tfl<00:11:57.680> oh<00:11:57.920> look<00:11:58.160> it<00:11:58.320> is

mattel's last week for tfl oh look it is

mattel's last week for tfl oh look it is bill<00:11:58.880> gates<00:11:59.360> let's<00:11:59.519> go<00:11:59.680> further<00:12:00.000> down<00:12:00.160> the

bill gates let's go further down the

bill gates let's go further down the list<00:12:00.480> to<00:12:00.639> g<00:12:01.040> there's<00:12:01.360> bill<00:12:01.519> gates<00:12:01.760> can<00:12:01.920> you<00:12:02.000> get

list to g there's bill gates can you get

list to g there's bill gates can you get him<00:12:02.240> on<00:12:02.320> the<00:12:02.399> phone<00:12:02.639> please<00:12:02.800> we<00:12:02.959> need<00:12:03.040> to<00:12:03.200> bail

him on the phone please we need to bail

him on the phone please we need to bail out<00:12:03.600> northern<00:12:03.920> rail<00:12:04.160> i<00:12:04.240> mean<00:12:04.399> is<00:12:04.480> that<00:12:04.800> really

out northern rail i mean is that really

out northern rail i mean is that really the<00:12:06.079> way<00:12:06.320> to<00:12:06.480> do<00:12:06.720> things<00:12:07.120> gary

the way to do things gary

the way to do things gary well<00:12:08.639> i<00:12:08.720> don't<00:12:08.880> see<00:12:09.040> why<00:12:09.279> not<00:12:09.440> we've<00:12:09.600> raised

well i don't see why not we've raised

well i don't see why not we've raised tax<00:12:10.240> on<00:12:10.399> ordinary<00:12:10.720> working<00:12:11.040> people<00:12:11.279> two<00:12:11.440> and<00:12:11.519> a

tax on ordinary working people two and a

tax on ordinary working people two and a half<00:12:11.760> percent

half percent

half percent while<00:12:12.959> the<00:12:13.120> billionaires<00:12:13.600> have<00:12:13.760> increased

while the billionaires have increased

while the billionaires have increased their<00:12:14.160> wealth<00:12:14.399> by<00:12:14.560> 22<00:12:15.440> during<00:12:15.760> a<00:12:15.839> crisis<00:12:16.399> d<00:12:16.480> do

their wealth by 22 during a crisis d do

their wealth by 22 during a crisis d do you<00:12:16.720> think<00:12:17.040> that's<00:12:17.360> a<00:12:17.440> fair<00:12:17.680> way<00:12:17.920> to<00:12:18.000> deal<00:12:18.160> with

you think that's a fair way to deal with

you think that's a fair way to deal with the<00:12:18.320> crisis<00:12:18.720> i<00:12:18.800> think<00:12:18.959> it<00:12:19.040> takes<00:12:19.680> to<00:12:19.760> stop

the crisis i think it takes to stop

the crisis i think it takes to stop grabbing<00:12:20.639> richard<00:12:21.200> i<00:12:21.279> think<00:12:21.440> it's<00:12:21.600> less<00:12:21.839> fair

grabbing richard i think it's less fair

grabbing richard i think it's less fair to<00:12:22.240> start<00:12:22.560> grabbing<00:12:23.040> at<00:12:23.200> people's<00:12:23.600> wealth

to start grabbing at people's wealth

to start grabbing at people's wealth because<00:12:24.000> what<00:12:24.160> an<00:12:24.399> earth<00:12:24.720> incentive<00:12:25.279> is<00:12:25.440> there

because what an earth incentive is there

because what an earth incentive is there to<00:12:26.079> work<00:12:26.399> hard<00:12:26.639> and<00:12:26.720> get<00:12:26.959> wealthy<00:12:27.279> if<00:12:27.360> you<00:12:27.519> know

to work hard and get wealthy if you know

to work hard and get wealthy if you know that<00:12:27.839> your<00:12:28.079> money<00:12:28.320> is<00:12:28.399> going<00:12:28.480> to<00:12:28.560> be<00:12:28.639> going<00:12:28.800> to

that your money is going to be going to

that your money is going to be going to a<00:12:28.959> northern<00:12:29.360> rail<00:12:29.680> company<00:12:30.160> but<00:12:30.560> we've<00:12:30.800> raised

a northern rail company but we've raised

a northern rail company but we've raised tax<00:12:31.360> on<00:12:31.519> orderly<00:12:31.839> working<00:12:32.079> people<00:12:32.240> two<00:12:32.399> and<00:12:32.480> a

tax on orderly working people two and a

tax on orderly working people two and a half<00:12:32.639> percent<00:12:33.360> we've<00:12:33.600> raised<00:12:34.160> tax<00:12:34.480> on

half percent we've raised tax on

half percent we've raised tax on ordinary<00:12:35.040> working<00:12:35.360> people<00:12:35.600> two<00:12:35.760> and<00:12:35.839> a<00:12:35.839> half

ordinary working people two and a half

ordinary working people two and a half percent<00:12:36.480> while<00:12:36.639> billionaires<00:12:37.279> have

percent while billionaires have

percent while billionaires have increased<00:12:37.920> their<00:12:38.160> wealth

increased their wealth

increased their wealth by<00:12:39.360> a<00:12:39.440> hundred<00:12:39.680> and<00:12:39.760> six<00:12:40.000> billion<00:12:40.480> pounds

by a hundred and six billion pounds

by a hundred and six billion pounds okay

okay

okay what<00:12:43.760> do<00:12:43.839> you<00:12:43.920> say<00:12:44.079> to<00:12:44.240> that<00:12:44.560> that<00:12:44.639> we've<00:12:44.800> got

what do you say to that that we've got

what do you say to that that we've got to<00:12:44.959> take<00:12:45.120> a<00:12:45.200> quick<00:12:45.360> break<00:12:45.519> but<00:12:45.600> go<00:12:45.760> on

to take a quick break but go on

to take a quick break but go on annabelle<00:12:46.160> i'll<00:12:46.240> give<00:12:46.320> you<00:12:46.399> the<00:12:46.480> last<00:12:46.639> word

annabelle i'll give you the last word

annabelle i'll give you the last word sort<00:12:48.079> of<00:12:48.240> segue<00:12:48.560> ever<00:12:48.800> so<00:12:48.959> slightly<00:12:49.279> will

sort of segue ever so slightly will

sort of segue ever so slightly will rather<00:12:49.760> move<00:12:50.000> us<00:12:50.079> back<00:12:50.320> to<00:12:50.480> the<00:12:50.639> topic<00:12:50.959> of<00:12:51.279> what

rather move us back to the topic of what

rather move us back to the topic of what we<00:12:51.519> do<00:12:51.680> about<00:12:51.839> the<00:12:51.920> fact<00:12:52.160> that<00:12:52.240> we've<00:12:52.480> got<00:12:52.639> a

we do about the fact that we've got a

we do about the fact that we've got a viable<00:12:53.120> railway<00:12:53.600> networks<00:12:54.160> what<00:12:54.399> i<00:12:54.480> would

viable railway networks what i would

viable railway networks what i would suggest<00:12:54.959> we<00:12:55.120> do<00:12:55.440> is<00:12:55.680> privatize<00:12:56.399> the<00:12:56.480> bakerloo

suggest we do is privatize the bakerloo

suggest we do is privatize the bakerloo line<00:12:57.360> uh<00:12:57.600> as<00:12:57.760> a<00:12:57.839> single<00:12:58.240> entity<00:12:58.639> or<00:12:58.880> even

line uh as a single entity or even

line uh as a single entity or even potentially<00:13:00.320> privatize<00:13:00.959> the<00:13:01.040> entire<00:13:01.440> tube<00:13:01.680> if

potentially privatize the entire tube if

potentially privatize the entire tube if you<00:13:01.839> do<00:13:02.000> the<00:13:02.079> former<00:13:02.480> then<00:13:02.639> people<00:13:02.880> compares

you do the former then people compares

you do the former then people compares they<00:13:03.440> do<00:13:03.680> specialist<00:13:04.399> motorways<00:13:05.040> if<00:13:05.200> you<00:13:05.279> do

they do specialist motorways if you do

they do specialist motorways if you do the<00:13:05.920> latter<00:13:06.320> then<00:13:06.560> we<00:13:06.720> actually<00:13:06.959> have<00:13:07.120> a<00:13:07.200> hope

the latter then we actually have a hope

the latter then we actually have a hope of<00:13:07.519> having<00:13:07.760> a<00:13:07.920> functioning<00:13:08.560> uh<00:13:08.720> railway

of having a functioning uh railway

of having a functioning uh railway network<00:13:10.000> um<00:13:10.399> where<00:13:10.560> potentially<00:13:11.120> costs<00:13:11.440> do

network um where potentially costs do

network um where potentially costs do eventually<00:13:12.160> start<00:13:12.399> to<00:13:12.480> come<00:13:12.639> down<00:13:12.880> and<00:13:12.959> we

eventually start to come down and we

eventually start to come down and we increase

increase

increase capacity<00:13:15.600> as<00:13:16.160> is<00:13:16.880> needed<00:13:17.200> but<00:13:17.360> we<00:13:17.680> we<00:13:17.839> cannot

capacity as is needed but we we cannot

capacity as is needed but we we cannot simply<00:13:18.639> get<00:13:18.800> ourselves<00:13:19.360> into<00:13:19.519> this<00:13:20.000> perpetual

simply get ourselves into this perpetual

simply get ourselves into this perpetual cycle<00:13:21.680> where<00:13:22.160> the<00:13:22.320> mayor<00:13:22.560> of<00:13:22.720> london<00:13:23.279> is<00:13:23.600> uh

cycle where the mayor of london is uh

cycle where the mayor of london is uh using

using

using the<00:13:26.079> tfl<00:13:26.639> as<00:13:26.959> a<00:13:27.200> populist<00:13:27.920> measure<00:13:28.320> to<00:13:28.399> try<00:13:28.560> and

the tfl as a populist measure to try and

the tfl as a populist measure to try and guarantee<00:13:29.120> that<00:13:29.279> he's<00:13:29.360> going<00:13:29.440> to<00:13:29.519> get

guarantee that he's going to get

guarantee that he's going to get re-elected

re-elected

re-elected and<00:13:31.680> all<00:13:31.839> the<00:13:32.000> while<00:13:32.320> it's<00:13:32.560> becoming<00:13:33.040> an

and all the while it's becoming an

and all the while it's becoming an unviable<00:13:34.160> business<00:13:34.800> all<00:13:34.880> right<00:13:35.360> all<00:13:35.440> right

unviable business all right all right

unviable business all right all right when<00:13:35.920> we<00:13:36.079> come<00:13:36.320> back<00:13:36.639> uh<00:13:36.880> we're<00:13:37.120> going<00:13:37.279> to<00:13:37.360> talk

when we come back uh we're going to talk

when we come back uh we're going to talk a<00:13:38.000> little<00:13:38.240> bit<00:13:38.480> more<00:13:38.639> about<00:13:38.959> sleaze<00:13:39.920> in<00:13:40.240> the

a little bit more about sleaze in the

a little bit more about sleaze in the government<00:13:40.720> we'll<00:13:40.880> get<00:13:40.959> some<00:13:41.120> of<00:13:41.120> your<00:13:41.279> calls

government we'll get some of your calls

government we'll get some of your calls on<00:13:41.760> air<00:13:41.920> as<00:13:42.079> well<00:13:42.320> right<00:13:42.560> here<00:13:42.959> on<00:13:43.199> talk<00:13:43.440> radio

on air as well right here on talk radio

on air as well right here on talk radio this<00:13:45.760> is<00:13:46.079> talk<00:13:46.480> radio<00:13:47.360> across<00:13:47.760> the<00:13:47.920> uk

this is talk radio across the uk

this is talk radio across the uk online<00:13:49.760> on<00:13:50.000> dab<00:13:50.560> plus

online on dab plus

online on dab plus and<00:13:51.519> on<00:13:51.680> the<00:13:51.839> talk<00:13:52.079> radio<00:13:52.560> app<00:13:52.959> kristo<00:13:53.760> on<00:13:54.079> talk

and on the talk radio app kristo on talk

and on the talk radio app kristo on talk radio

[Music]

[Music]

[Music] afternoon<00:14:00.240> it<00:14:00.399> is<00:14:00.560> dry<00:14:01.199> with<00:14:01.519> me<00:14:01.920> christo

afternoon it is dry with me christo

afternoon it is dry with me christo still<00:14:02.720> joined<00:14:03.519> with<00:14:03.760> our<00:14:03.839> political<00:14:04.320> panel

still joined with our political panel

still joined with our political panel gary<00:14:04.959> stevenson<00:14:05.760> former<00:14:06.079> city<00:14:06.480> trader<00:14:07.040> turned

gary stevenson former city trader turned

gary stevenson former city trader turned inequality<00:14:08.240> economist<00:14:09.199> and<00:14:09.440> annabelle

inequality economist and annabelle

inequality economist and annabelle denham<00:14:10.720> uh<00:14:10.880> the<00:14:10.959> director<00:14:11.279> of<00:14:11.440> communications

denham uh the director of communications

denham uh the director of communications at<00:14:12.399> the<00:14:12.800> iea<00:14:14.160> and<00:14:14.320> uh<00:14:14.560> he's<00:14:14.880> an<00:14:15.040> economic

at the iea and uh he's an economic

at the iea and uh he's an economic affair

affair

affair for<00:14:16.720> you<00:14:17.360> both<00:14:17.839> actually<00:14:18.320> because<00:14:18.720> uh<00:14:19.279> uh<00:14:20.000> a

for you both actually because uh uh a

for you both actually because uh uh a story<00:14:20.560> i<00:14:20.639> think<00:14:20.800> that's<00:14:21.120> um<00:14:21.680> really<00:14:22.000> big<00:14:22.240> today

story i think that's um really big today

story i think that's um really big today is<00:14:23.519> the<00:14:23.680> nhs<00:14:24.399> waiting<00:14:24.800> lists<00:14:25.360> they<00:14:25.600> could

is the nhs waiting lists they could

is the nhs waiting lists they could double

double

double to<00:14:27.360> 12

to 12

to 12 million

million

million people<00:14:30.000> on<00:14:30.160> that<00:14:30.399> list<00:14:30.720> by<00:14:30.880> 2025<00:14:32.160> due<00:14:32.399> to<00:14:32.720> the

people on that list by 2025 due to the

people on that list by 2025 due to the pandemic

pandemic

pandemic backlog<00:14:34.720> apparently<00:14:35.120> for<00:14:35.360> elective<00:14:35.839> care

backlog apparently for elective care

backlog apparently for elective care could<00:14:36.720> be<00:14:37.040> 12<00:14:37.440> million<00:14:38.079> as<00:14:38.399> uh<00:14:38.639> and<00:14:38.800> that's

could be 12 million as uh and that's

could be 12 million as uh and that's according<00:14:39.519> to<00:14:39.839> the<00:14:40.000> national<00:14:40.880> audit<00:14:41.839> office

according to the national audit office

according to the national audit office and<00:14:42.720> even<00:14:43.120> the<00:14:43.360> eight<00:14:43.839> billion<00:14:44.480> additional

and even the eight billion additional

and even the eight billion additional funds<00:14:46.160> that<00:14:46.399> the<00:14:46.800> uh<00:14:47.199> government<00:14:47.600> is

funds that the uh government is

funds that the uh government is providing<00:14:48.079> the<00:14:48.240> nhs<00:14:49.199> over<00:14:49.839> the<00:14:50.000> next<00:14:50.399> three

providing the nhs over the next three

providing the nhs over the next three years<00:14:50.880> to<00:14:51.120> 2025<00:14:52.560> um<00:14:52.959> apparently<00:14:53.360> that<00:14:53.600> is<00:14:53.680> just

years to 2025 um apparently that is just

years to 2025 um apparently that is just not<00:14:54.480> going<00:14:54.880> to<00:14:55.120> be<00:14:55.360> enough<00:14:56.079> and<00:14:56.399> even<00:14:56.720> in<00:14:56.800> the

not going to be enough and even in the

not going to be enough and even in the best<00:14:57.199> case<00:14:57.360> scenario

best case scenario

best case scenario seven<00:14:59.040> million<00:14:59.440> people<00:15:00.160> will<00:15:00.320> be<00:15:00.480> waiting<00:15:01.279> for

seven million people will be waiting for

seven million people will be waiting for their<00:15:02.800> treatment<00:15:03.440> now<00:15:03.839> um

their treatment now um

their treatment now um what<00:15:04.959> is<00:15:05.120> the<00:15:05.360> solution

what is the solution

what is the solution to<00:15:06.800> this<00:15:07.120> i<00:15:07.199> mean<00:15:07.440> gary<00:15:08.000> now<00:15:08.240> i<00:15:08.399> know<00:15:08.560> you're

to this i mean gary now i know you're

to this i mean gary now i know you're gonna<00:15:08.959> say<00:15:09.199> ring<00:15:09.519> up<00:15:09.920> bring<00:15:10.160> up<00:15:10.240> one<00:15:10.399> of<00:15:10.480> the

gonna say ring up bring up one of the

gonna say ring up bring up one of the mattels<00:15:11.440> that<00:15:11.600> you<00:15:11.680> know<00:15:12.000> if<00:15:12.320> they're<00:15:12.399> writing

mattels that you know if they're writing

mattels that you know if they're writing a<00:15:12.880> check<00:15:13.519> for<00:15:13.920> for<00:15:14.079> northern<00:15:14.560> rail<00:15:14.880> they<00:15:15.040> could

a check for for northern rail they could

a check for for northern rail they could write<00:15:15.440> a<00:15:15.519> check<00:15:15.680> for<00:15:15.839> the<00:15:16.000> nhs<00:15:16.480> as<00:15:16.560> well<00:15:16.880> am<00:15:17.040> i

write a check for the nhs as well am i

write a check for the nhs as well am i right<00:15:17.519> in<00:15:17.600> that<00:15:17.760> being<00:15:18.000> your<00:15:18.160> solution<00:15:18.639> gary

right in that being your solution gary

right in that being your solution gary well<00:15:20.320> why<00:15:20.560> are<00:15:20.639> we<00:15:20.720> not<00:15:20.880> taxing<00:15:21.199> these<00:15:21.360> guys

well why are we not taxing these guys

well why are we not taxing these guys they<00:15:21.760> put<00:15:21.920> lower<00:15:22.079> rates<00:15:22.240> of<00:15:22.320> attacks<00:15:22.560> on

they put lower rates of attacks on

they put lower rates of attacks on ordinary<00:15:23.040> people<00:15:23.440> and<00:15:23.519> they've<00:15:23.760> increased

ordinary people and they've increased

ordinary people and they've increased their<00:15:24.240> wealth<00:15:24.480> 22

their wealth 22

their wealth 22 during<00:15:25.680> a<00:15:25.839> global<00:15:26.079> crisis<00:15:26.720> while<00:15:26.959> we've

during a global crisis while we've

during a global crisis while we've raised<00:15:27.440> taxes<00:15:27.680> on<00:15:27.839> ordinary<00:15:28.079> people<00:15:28.240> two<00:15:28.399> and

raised taxes on ordinary people two and

raised taxes on ordinary people two and a half<00:15:28.560> percent<00:15:28.880> yeah<00:15:29.199> annabelle<00:15:29.600> talks

a half percent yeah annabelle talks

a half percent yeah annabelle talks about<00:15:30.000> seizing<00:15:30.320> wealth<00:15:30.800> but<00:15:30.959> we're<00:15:31.199> seizing

about seizing wealth but we're seizing

about seizing wealth but we're seizing an<00:15:31.759> extra<00:15:31.920> two<00:15:32.079> and<00:15:32.160> a<00:15:32.160> half<00:15:32.399> percent<00:15:32.720> of

an extra two and a half percent of

an extra two and a half percent of everybody's<00:15:33.279> wages<00:15:33.680> including<00:15:34.000> yours

everybody's wages including yours

everybody's wages including yours christo<00:15:35.120> and<00:15:35.279> yet<00:15:35.680> we're<00:15:35.839> allowing

christo and yet we're allowing

christo and yet we're allowing billionaires<00:15:37.120> to<00:15:37.279> make<00:15:37.519> on<00:15:37.759> average<00:15:38.399> 620

billionaires to make on average 620

billionaires to make on average 620 million<00:15:39.600> pounds<00:15:40.320> increase<00:15:41.279> each

million pounds increase each

million pounds increase each during<00:15:42.480> a<00:15:42.560> crisis<00:15:43.360> make<00:15:43.839> these<00:15:44.240> guys

during a crisis make these guys

during a crisis make these guys contribute<00:15:45.040> they<00:15:45.199> shouldn't<00:15:45.519> be<00:15:45.839> profiting

contribute they shouldn't be profiting

contribute they shouldn't be profiting from<00:15:46.560> a<00:15:46.639> crisis<00:15:47.040> it's<00:15:47.199> not<00:15:47.440> difficult

from a crisis it's not difficult

from a crisis it's not difficult annabelle<00:15:48.720> what<00:15:48.880> do<00:15:48.959> you<00:15:49.040> say<00:15:49.199> to<00:15:49.279> that<00:15:49.440> is<00:15:49.519> the

annabelle what do you say to that is the

annabelle what do you say to that is the nhs<00:15:50.079> working<00:15:50.560> for<00:15:50.720> us<00:15:50.880> or<00:15:51.120> are<00:15:51.199> we<00:15:51.519> working<00:15:52.079> too

nhs working for us or are we working too

nhs working for us or are we working too hard<00:15:53.040> for<00:15:53.199> the<00:15:53.360> nhs

hard for the nhs

hard for the nhs i<00:15:55.600> think<00:15:55.759> we've<00:15:55.920> known<00:15:56.160> for<00:15:56.320> some<00:15:56.480> time<00:15:56.720> now

i think we've known for some time now

i think we've known for some time now christine<00:15:57.279> that<00:15:57.360> the<00:15:57.440> nhs<00:15:58.000> isn't<00:15:58.320> fit<00:15:58.560> for

christine that the nhs isn't fit for

christine that the nhs isn't fit for purpose<00:15:59.199> and<00:15:59.360> as<00:15:59.519> for<00:15:59.680> the<00:15:59.839> nhs<00:16:00.399> working<00:16:00.639> for

purpose and as for the nhs working for

purpose and as for the nhs working for us<00:16:01.040> or<00:16:01.279> us<00:16:01.519> working<00:16:02.000> for<00:16:02.320> it<00:16:02.480> i<00:16:02.560> think<00:16:02.720> the

us or us working for it i think the

us or us working for it i think the messaging<00:16:03.199> from<00:16:03.360> the<00:16:03.440> government<00:16:03.759> has<00:16:03.920> been

messaging from the government has been

messaging from the government has been quite<00:16:04.480> clear<00:16:05.040> throughout<00:16:05.360> this<00:16:05.519> pandemic

quite clear throughout this pandemic

quite clear throughout this pandemic that<00:16:06.560> we<00:16:06.800> are<00:16:06.959> here<00:16:07.199> to<00:16:07.519> shield<00:16:08.000> and<00:16:08.079> protect

that we are here to shield and protect

that we are here to shield and protect the<00:16:08.639> nhs<00:16:09.120> rather<00:16:09.519> than<00:16:10.079> the<00:16:10.240> other<00:16:10.399> way<00:16:10.639> around

the nhs rather than the other way around

the nhs rather than the other way around um<00:16:12.000> i<00:16:12.320> i<00:16:12.480> do<00:16:12.720> think<00:16:12.959> that<00:16:13.360> this<00:16:13.759> pandemic<00:16:14.560> has

um i i do think that this pandemic has

um i i do think that this pandemic has brought<00:16:15.279> to<00:16:15.600> a<00:16:15.839> head<00:16:16.240> some<00:16:16.399> of<00:16:16.480> the<00:16:16.720> existing

brought to a head some of the existing

brought to a head some of the existing pre-existing<00:16:18.000> discontent<00:16:18.800> with<00:16:19.199> the<00:16:19.360> nhs<00:16:19.920> and

pre-existing discontent with the nhs and

pre-existing discontent with the nhs and it<00:16:20.160> is<00:16:20.399> forcing<00:16:20.959> us<00:16:21.199> at<00:16:21.440> last<00:16:22.240> to<00:16:22.560> compare<00:16:22.959> the

it is forcing us at last to compare the

it is forcing us at last to compare the nhs<00:16:23.680> to<00:16:23.839> healthcare<00:16:24.320> systems<00:16:24.959> that<00:16:25.279> aren't

nhs to healthcare systems that aren't

nhs to healthcare systems that aren't the<00:16:25.600> us<00:16:26.000> a<00:16:26.079> rhetorical<00:16:26.639> straw<00:16:26.959> man<00:16:27.440> that

the us a rhetorical straw man that

the us a rhetorical straw man that people<00:16:28.000> on<00:16:28.079> the<00:16:28.160> left<00:16:28.480> tend<00:16:28.880> to<00:16:29.440> bring<00:16:29.759> up<00:16:30.240> when

people on the left tend to bring up when

people on the left tend to bring up when you<00:16:30.800> talk<00:16:31.040> about<00:16:31.360> moving<00:16:31.680> towards<00:16:32.000> the<00:16:32.079> social

you talk about moving towards the social

you talk about moving towards the social insurance<00:16:32.800> system<00:16:33.120> like<00:16:33.279> they<00:16:33.519> have<00:16:33.920> on<00:16:34.079> the

insurance system like they have on the

insurance system like they have on the continent<00:16:35.040> is<00:16:35.199> that<00:16:35.440> you<00:16:35.680> would<00:16:35.920> seem<00:16:36.079> to<00:16:36.160> want

continent is that you would seem to want

continent is that you would seem to want the<00:16:36.399> u.s<00:16:36.720> system<00:16:37.120> where<00:16:37.440> people<00:16:37.759> suffer

the u.s system where people suffer

the u.s system where people suffer medical<00:16:38.560> bankruptcy<00:16:39.120> and<00:16:39.199> that<00:16:39.360> of<00:16:39.519> course<00:16:39.839> is

medical bankruptcy and that of course is

medical bankruptcy and that of course is not<00:16:40.079> the<00:16:40.240> case<00:16:40.480> and<00:16:40.560> we've<00:16:40.880> seen<00:16:41.519> these<00:16:42.079> the

not the case and we've seen these the

not the case and we've seen these the countries<00:16:42.720> like<00:16:43.040> the<00:16:43.199> netherlands<00:16:43.759> and

countries like the netherlands and

countries like the netherlands and germany<00:16:44.639> uh<00:16:44.880> perform<00:16:45.360> quite<00:16:45.519> well<00:16:45.680> during<00:16:45.920> the

germany uh perform quite well during the

germany uh perform quite well during the pandemic<00:16:46.880> at<00:16:47.040> various<00:16:47.440> points<00:16:47.600> i<00:16:47.680> think<00:16:47.839> it's

pandemic at various points i think it's

pandemic at various points i think it's a<00:16:48.000> little<00:16:48.320> too<00:16:48.480> early<00:16:48.800> to<00:16:48.959> say<00:16:49.120> which<00:16:49.360> country

a little too early to say which country

a little too early to say which country in<00:16:49.920> which<00:16:50.079> healthcare<00:16:50.480> system<00:16:50.720> has<00:16:50.880> come<00:16:51.040> out

in which healthcare system has come out

in which healthcare system has come out top<00:16:51.920> but<00:16:52.160> we<00:16:52.399> know<00:16:52.959> that<00:16:53.120> when<00:16:53.279> it<00:16:53.440> comes<00:16:53.759> to

top but we know that when it comes to

top but we know that when it comes to things<00:16:54.240> like<00:16:54.720> heart<00:16:54.959> attack<00:16:55.199> survival<00:16:55.759> rates

things like heart attack survival rates

things like heart attack survival rates uh<00:16:56.639> survival<00:16:57.040> rates<00:16:57.279> for<00:16:57.360> some<00:16:57.519> of<00:16:57.600> the<00:16:57.680> most

uh survival rates for some of the most

uh survival rates for some of the most common<00:16:58.320> cancers<00:16:59.199> that<00:16:59.440> if<00:16:59.680> you<00:16:59.839> were<00:17:00.000> treated

common cancers that if you were treated

common cancers that if you were treated in<00:17:00.800> the<00:17:00.880> netherlands<00:17:01.519> rather<00:17:01.839> than<00:17:02.079> on<00:17:02.160> the

in the netherlands rather than on the

in the netherlands rather than on the nhs<00:17:03.440> thousands<00:17:04.160> literally<00:17:04.720> thousands<00:17:05.280> of

nhs thousands literally thousands of

nhs thousands literally thousands of lives<00:17:05.839> would<00:17:06.240> be<00:17:06.559> saved<00:17:07.120> and<00:17:07.679> we're<00:17:07.919> very

lives would be saved and we're very

lives would be saved and we're very fixated<00:17:08.640> in<00:17:08.720> this<00:17:08.880> country<00:17:09.199> on<00:17:09.280> the<00:17:09.439> idea<00:17:09.679> that

fixated in this country on the idea that

fixated in this country on the idea that the<00:17:10.000> nhs<00:17:10.400> is<00:17:10.559> free<00:17:11.120> at<00:17:11.280> the<00:17:11.360> point<00:17:11.600> of<00:17:11.760> entry

the nhs is free at the point of entry

the nhs is free at the point of entry and<00:17:12.319> this<00:17:12.720> this<00:17:12.959> illusion<00:17:13.679> or<00:17:13.760> this<00:17:14.079> myth<00:17:14.720> that

and this this illusion or this myth that

and this this illusion or this myth that the<00:17:15.360> uk<00:17:15.760> is<00:17:15.919> unique<00:17:16.400> in<00:17:16.480> having<00:17:16.799> universal

the uk is unique in having universal

the uk is unique in having universal healthcare<00:17:17.600> when<00:17:17.839> it<00:17:18.000> simply<00:17:18.400> isn't<00:17:18.720> true<00:17:19.120> in

healthcare when it simply isn't true in

healthcare when it simply isn't true in european<00:17:19.839> countries<00:17:20.559> which<00:17:20.799> have<00:17:21.120> uh<00:17:21.439> social

european countries which have uh social

european countries which have uh social healthcare<00:17:22.160> it's<00:17:22.319> just<00:17:22.640> insurance<00:17:23.120> systems

healthcare it's just insurance systems

healthcare it's just insurance systems there's<00:17:24.559> still<00:17:24.880> provision<00:17:25.520> for<00:17:25.839> the<00:17:26.000> poorest

there's still provision for the poorest

there's still provision for the poorest in<00:17:26.559> society<00:17:27.120> so<00:17:27.280> what<00:17:27.439> i<00:17:27.520> would<00:17:27.760> like<00:17:27.919> to<00:17:28.079> see

in society so what i would like to see

in society so what i would like to see though<00:17:28.480> i<00:17:28.559> don't<00:17:28.720> know<00:17:28.799> how<00:17:29.360> realistic<00:17:29.919> it<00:17:30.080> is

though i don't know how realistic it is

though i don't know how realistic it is because<00:17:30.880> in<00:17:31.120> some<00:17:31.440> quarters<00:17:31.919> particularly

because in some quarters particularly

because in some quarters particularly among<00:17:32.640> politicians<00:17:33.360> this<00:17:33.679> love<00:17:34.080> and

among politicians this love and

among politicians this love and obsession<00:17:35.280> and<00:17:35.440> veneration<00:17:35.919> of<00:17:36.080> the<00:17:36.160> nhs<00:17:36.640> has

obsession and veneration of the nhs has

obsession and veneration of the nhs has been<00:17:36.960> entrenched<00:17:37.440> by<00:17:37.600> the<00:17:37.679> pandemic<00:17:38.240> when

been entrenched by the pandemic when

been entrenched by the pandemic when when<00:17:38.880> arguably<00:17:39.520> it<00:17:39.600> should<00:17:39.840> have<00:17:39.919> gone<00:17:40.080> in<00:17:40.160> the

when arguably it should have gone in the

when arguably it should have gone in the opposite<00:17:40.559> direction<00:17:41.520> but<00:17:41.760> i'd<00:17:42.000> like<00:17:42.240> to<00:17:42.400> see

opposite direction but i'd like to see

opposite direction but i'd like to see us<00:17:43.039> move<00:17:43.280> to<00:17:43.440> having<00:17:43.760> more<00:17:44.080> market<00:17:44.480> forces<00:17:44.880> and

us move to having more market forces and

us move to having more market forces and healthcare

healthcare

healthcare but

but

but gary<00:17:47.360> i'm<00:17:47.760> sure<00:17:48.000> would<00:17:48.320> argue<00:17:48.960> and<00:17:49.120> i've<00:17:49.280> got

gary i'm sure would argue and i've got

gary i'm sure would argue and i've got to<00:17:49.520> put<00:17:49.679> words<00:17:49.919> into<00:17:50.160> your<00:17:50.240> mouth<00:17:50.559> gary<00:17:50.799> but

to put words into your mouth gary but

to put words into your mouth gary but look<00:17:51.120> you<00:17:51.200> don't<00:17:51.360> need<00:17:51.520> to<00:17:51.600> worry<00:17:51.760> about<00:17:52.000> any

look you don't need to worry about any

look you don't need to worry about any of<00:17:52.400> that<00:17:52.799> if<00:17:52.960> there<00:17:53.200> were<00:17:53.919> people<00:17:54.640> who<00:17:54.960> are

of that if there were people who are

of that if there were people who are spending<00:17:56.240> an<00:17:56.640> absolute<00:17:57.200> fortune<00:17:57.840> on

spending an absolute fortune on

spending an absolute fortune on accountants<00:17:58.880> and<00:17:59.039> on<00:17:59.200> loopholes<00:18:00.240> avoiding

accountants and on loopholes avoiding

accountants and on loopholes avoiding paying<00:18:01.200> tax<00:18:01.679> if<00:18:01.840> they<00:18:02.000> weren't<00:18:02.400> able<00:18:02.640> to<00:18:02.799> do

paying tax if they weren't able to do

paying tax if they weren't able to do that

that

that you<00:18:04.080> wouldn't<00:18:04.400> need<00:18:04.559> to<00:18:04.720> worry<00:18:05.039> about<00:18:05.360> all<00:18:05.520> the

you wouldn't need to worry about all the

you wouldn't need to worry about all the things<00:18:05.840> that<00:18:06.000> you're<00:18:06.240> discussing<00:18:06.720> their

things that you're discussing their

things that you're discussing their annabelle

annabelle

annabelle well<00:18:09.200> like<00:18:09.440> i've<00:18:09.520> said<00:18:09.760> before<00:18:10.080> christo<00:18:10.480> it's

well like i've said before christo it's

well like i've said before christo it's it's<00:18:10.960> just<00:18:11.200> not

it's just not

it's just not i<00:18:12.320> personally<00:18:12.720> think<00:18:12.960> there's<00:18:13.039> an<00:18:13.200> immoral

i personally think there's an immoral

i personally think there's an immoral argument<00:18:14.000> against<00:18:14.400> it<00:18:14.559> but<00:18:14.720> it's<00:18:14.880> not<00:18:15.039> even

argument against it but it's not even

argument against it but it's not even feasible

feasible

feasible or

or

or practical<00:18:17.919> to<00:18:18.080> try<00:18:18.559> and<00:18:18.960> seize<00:18:19.280> the<00:18:19.360> wealth<00:18:19.679> of

practical to try and seize the wealth of

practical to try and seize the wealth of of<00:18:20.320> um<00:18:20.720> some<00:18:20.880> of<00:18:20.960> the<00:18:21.039> billionaires<00:18:21.679> in<00:18:22.080> our

of um some of the billionaires in our

of um some of the billionaires in our society<00:18:23.120> for<00:18:23.280> a<00:18:23.440> start<00:18:24.000> um<00:18:24.240> some<00:18:24.400> of<00:18:24.480> the<00:18:24.559> tax

society for a start um some of the tax

society for a start um some of the tax increases<00:18:25.280> that<00:18:25.360> i<00:18:25.440> suspect<00:18:25.840> gary<00:18:26.160> would<00:18:26.240> be

increases that i suspect gary would be

increases that i suspect gary would be in<00:18:26.480> favor<00:18:26.880> of<00:18:27.360> wouldn't<00:18:27.600> affect<00:18:28.160> the

in favor of wouldn't affect the

in favor of wouldn't affect the ultra<00:18:29.840> super<00:18:30.480> most<00:18:30.799> elite<00:18:31.120> in<00:18:31.280> our<00:18:31.360> society

ultra super most elite in our society

ultra super most elite in our society because<00:18:32.559> they<00:18:32.799> are<00:18:32.960> the<00:18:33.120> ones<00:18:33.360> who<00:18:33.520> would<00:18:33.679> hire

because they are the ones who would hire

because they are the ones who would hire the<00:18:34.160> accountants<00:18:34.720> and<00:18:34.799> the<00:18:34.880> lawyers<00:18:35.280> and<00:18:35.440> the

the accountants and the lawyers and the

the accountants and the lawyers and the ones<00:18:35.760> who<00:18:36.240> if<00:18:36.559> push<00:18:36.799> came<00:18:37.039> to<00:18:37.200> shove<00:18:37.520> would

ones who if push came to shove would

ones who if push came to shove would move<00:18:38.160> overseas<00:18:38.799> where<00:18:39.200> the<00:18:39.360> treasury<00:18:39.919> would

move overseas where the treasury would

move overseas where the treasury would have<00:18:40.240> no<00:18:40.400> chance<00:18:40.720> of<00:18:40.799> getting<00:18:41.039> their<00:18:41.200> mitts<00:18:41.440> on

have no chance of getting their mitts on

have no chance of getting their mitts on their<00:18:41.679> money<00:18:42.240> um<00:18:42.559> it's<00:18:42.799> actually<00:18:43.280> you<00:18:43.440> know

their money um it's actually you know

their money um it's actually you know those<00:18:43.840> who<00:18:44.080> are<00:18:44.240> on<00:18:44.480> uh<00:18:44.720> middle<00:18:45.039> to<00:18:45.440> higher

those who are on uh middle to higher

those who are on uh middle to higher incomes<00:18:46.720> who<00:18:46.960> would<00:18:47.120> be<00:18:47.360> hardest<00:18:47.760> hit<00:18:47.919> by

incomes who would be hardest hit by

incomes who would be hardest hit by some<00:18:48.880> of<00:18:49.039> those<00:18:49.520> arguably<00:18:49.919> hardest<00:18:50.240> hit<00:18:50.400> by

some of those arguably hardest hit by

some of those arguably hardest hit by some<00:18:50.720> of<00:18:50.799> those<00:18:51.440> measures<00:18:52.000> and<00:18:52.320> like<00:18:52.559> you<00:18:52.799> said

some of those measures and like you said

some of those measures and like you said christo<00:18:53.600> i<00:18:53.840> don't<00:18:54.000> want<00:18:54.160> to<00:18:54.240> live<00:18:54.400> in<00:18:54.559> a

christo i don't want to live in a

christo i don't want to live in a society<00:18:55.440> or<00:18:55.919> economy<00:18:56.480> all<00:18:56.559> right<00:18:57.120> gary

society or economy all right gary

society or economy all right gary wealth<00:18:58.720> creation<00:18:59.520> because<00:18:59.760> then<00:19:00.000> it<00:19:00.080> can<00:19:00.320> hit

wealth creation because then it can hit

wealth creation because then it can hit the<00:19:00.559> poorest<00:19:00.960> in<00:19:01.039> society

the poorest in society

the poorest in society just<00:19:02.240> taking<00:19:02.559> a<00:19:02.640> glug<00:19:02.880> of<00:19:03.039> water

just taking a glug of water

just taking a glug of water go<00:19:04.160> on<00:19:04.320> gary<00:19:04.880> you're<00:19:05.039> ready<00:19:05.280> to<00:19:05.360> go<00:19:05.760> go

go on gary you're ready to go go

go on gary you're ready to go go listen<00:19:07.760> the<00:19:07.919> taxes<00:19:08.320> we<00:19:08.480> have<00:19:08.640> put<00:19:08.880> in<00:19:09.039> during

listen the taxes we have put in during

listen the taxes we have put in during this<00:19:09.440> crisis<00:19:10.000> are<00:19:10.160> an<00:19:10.320> increase<00:19:10.880> two<00:19:11.039> and<00:19:11.120> a

this crisis are an increase two and a

this crisis are an increase two and a half<00:19:11.280> percent<00:19:11.600> on<00:19:11.679> social<00:19:11.919> insurance<00:19:12.320> that's

half percent on social insurance that's

half percent on social insurance that's everybody's<00:19:13.280> wages<00:19:13.840> everybody's<00:19:14.240> wages<00:19:14.559> an

everybody's wages everybody's wages an

everybody's wages everybody's wages an extra<00:19:14.880> 200<00:19:15.440> gone<00:19:15.840> unless<00:19:16.720> you<00:19:16.880> get<00:19:17.039> your

extra 200 gone unless you get your

extra 200 gone unless you get your income<00:19:17.760> from<00:19:18.000> being<00:19:18.160> a<00:19:18.240> billionaire<00:19:18.720> because

income from being a billionaire because

income from being a billionaire because that<00:19:19.200> kind<00:19:19.360> of<00:19:19.520> income<00:19:20.080> isn't<00:19:20.320> included<00:19:21.120> how

that kind of income isn't included how

that kind of income isn't included how can<00:19:21.520> you<00:19:21.760> how<00:19:22.320> how<00:19:22.480> do<00:19:22.640> we<00:19:22.720> make<00:19:22.880> this<00:19:23.039> decision

can you how how do we make this decision

can you how how do we make this decision it's<00:19:23.840> probably<00:19:24.320> something<00:19:24.720> to<00:19:24.799> do<00:19:24.960> with<00:19:25.039> the

it's probably something to do with the

it's probably something to do with the fact<00:19:25.360> that<00:19:25.600> our<00:19:25.760> chancellor's<00:19:26.240> father-in-law

fact that our chancellor's father-in-law

fact that our chancellor's father-in-law is<00:19:26.960> a<00:19:27.039> billionaire<00:19:27.520> perhaps<00:19:28.080> how<00:19:28.480> can<00:19:28.640> you

is a billionaire perhaps how can you

is a billionaire perhaps how can you defend<00:19:29.520> raising<00:19:29.919> taxes<00:19:30.320> specifically<00:19:31.039> on

defend raising taxes specifically on

defend raising taxes specifically on working<00:19:31.520> people<00:19:32.000> and<00:19:32.240> specifically

working people and specifically

working people and specifically excluding<00:19:33.440> billionaires<00:19:34.080> when<00:19:34.320> working

excluding billionaires when working

excluding billionaires when working people<00:19:34.880> are<00:19:35.039> struggling<00:19:35.360> from<00:19:35.520> higher<00:19:35.760> rents

people are struggling from higher rents

people are struggling from higher rents higher<00:19:36.559> food<00:19:36.799> prices<00:19:37.280> higher<00:19:37.520> living<00:19:37.760> costs

higher food prices higher living costs

higher food prices higher living costs and<00:19:38.400> billionaires<00:19:39.039> have<00:19:39.200> seen<00:19:39.440> their<00:19:39.760> biggest

and billionaires have seen their biggest

and billionaires have seen their biggest ever<00:19:41.039> in<00:19:41.280> all<00:19:41.440> of<00:19:41.520> history<00:19:42.160> one<00:19:42.400> year<00:19:42.799> increase

ever in all of history one year increase

ever in all of history one year increase in<00:19:43.280> wealth<00:19:43.760> during<00:19:44.080> an<00:19:44.240> economic<00:19:44.640> crisis<00:19:45.039> you

in wealth during an economic crisis you

in wealth during an economic crisis you cannot<00:19:45.440> defend<00:19:45.840> annabelle<00:19:46.240> you<00:19:46.400> can't

cannot defend annabelle you can't

cannot defend annabelle you can't well<00:19:47.600> unlike<00:19:47.919> you<00:19:48.080> gary<00:19:48.320> i'm<00:19:48.400> not<00:19:48.559> interested

well unlike you gary i'm not interested

well unlike you gary i'm not interested in<00:19:49.039> playing<00:19:49.280> the<00:19:49.360> man<00:19:49.600> rather<00:19:49.919> than<00:19:50.080> the<00:19:50.240> ball

in playing the man rather than the ball

in playing the man rather than the ball i'm<00:19:51.280> not<00:19:51.520> saying<00:19:51.760> that<00:19:51.919> the<00:19:52.000> system<00:19:52.320> we<00:19:52.480> have

i'm not saying that the system we have

i'm not saying that the system we have currently<00:19:53.360> is<00:19:54.000> a<00:19:54.400> perfect<00:19:54.960> one<00:19:55.360> but<00:19:55.520> what<00:19:55.679> i<00:19:55.919> am

currently is a perfect one but what i am

currently is a perfect one but what i am saying<00:19:56.480> is<00:19:56.640> that<00:19:56.880> i<00:19:56.960> would<00:19:57.120> like<00:19:57.280> to<00:19:57.360> live<00:19:57.600> in

saying is that i would like to live in

saying is that i would like to live in an<00:19:57.919> economy<00:19:58.240> in<00:19:58.320> a<00:19:58.400> society<00:19:58.960> that<00:19:59.200> celebrates

an economy in a society that celebrates

an economy in a society that celebrates all<00:20:00.960> right

all right

all right we<00:20:01.840> grow<00:20:02.159> the<00:20:02.400> pie<00:20:02.799> to<00:20:02.960> as<00:20:03.120> large<00:20:03.360> as<00:20:03.440> it<00:20:03.520> could

we grow the pie to as large as it could

we grow the pie to as large as it could be<00:20:03.840> right<00:20:04.400> 10<00:20:04.720> seconds<00:20:05.120> to<00:20:05.280> respond<00:20:05.679> to<00:20:05.760> that

be right 10 seconds to respond to that

be right 10 seconds to respond to that ten<00:20:06.240> seconds<00:20:06.640> to<00:20:06.720> respond<00:20:07.039> to<00:20:07.200> that<00:20:07.280> gary

ten seconds to respond to that gary

ten seconds to respond to that gary so<00:20:08.640> would<00:20:08.799> i<00:20:09.039> and<00:20:09.120> you<00:20:09.360> only<00:20:09.520> grow<00:20:09.679> the<00:20:09.840> pie<00:20:10.080> if

so would i and you only grow the pie if

so would i and you only grow the pie if you<00:20:10.320> allow<00:20:10.640> working<00:20:11.120> people<00:20:11.600> to<00:20:11.760> keep<00:20:12.000> their

you allow working people to keep their

you allow working people to keep their wages<00:20:12.720> other<00:20:12.960> than<00:20:13.280> letting<00:20:13.520> it<00:20:13.679> all<00:20:13.840> go<00:20:14.080> to

wages other than letting it all go to

wages other than letting it all go to the<00:20:14.320> super<00:20:14.559> rich<00:20:14.799> and<00:20:14.880> the<00:20:14.960> billionaires<00:20:15.440> all

the super rich and the billionaires all

the super rich and the billionaires all right<00:20:16.080> we're<00:20:16.240> gonna<00:20:16.320> have<00:20:16.480> to<00:20:16.720> call<00:20:17.120> time<00:20:17.679> on

right we're gonna have to call time on

right we're gonna have to call time on that<00:20:18.159> otherwise<00:20:18.640> i<00:20:18.799> i<00:20:18.960> fear<00:20:19.440> one<00:20:19.600> of<00:20:19.679> you<00:20:19.840> two

that otherwise i i fear one of you two

that otherwise i i fear one of you two might<00:20:20.159> be<00:20:20.320> on<00:20:20.400> a<00:20:20.799> waiting<00:20:21.200> list<00:20:21.679> by<00:20:21.840> the<00:20:22.000> end<00:20:22.159> of

might be on a waiting list by the end of

might be on a waiting list by the end of that<00:20:22.720> uh<00:20:23.120> really<00:20:23.440> really<00:20:23.600> good<00:20:23.760> to<00:20:23.840> have<00:20:24.000> you

that uh really really good to have you

that uh really really good to have you both<00:20:24.400> though<00:20:24.640> very<00:20:24.960> spirited<00:20:25.520> and<00:20:25.600> heated

both though very spirited and heated

both though very spirited and heated discussion<00:20:26.320> which<00:20:26.480> is<00:20:26.640> of<00:20:26.720> course<00:20:27.440> what<00:20:27.600> we

discussion which is of course what we

discussion which is of course what we want<00:20:27.919> here<00:20:28.159> on<00:20:28.320> talk<00:20:28.480> radio<00:20:28.799> gary<00:20:29.200> stevenson

want here on talk radio gary stevenson

want here on talk radio gary stevenson city<00:20:30.400> trader<00:20:31.039> turned<00:20:31.520> inequality<00:20:32.080> economist

city trader turned inequality economist

city trader turned inequality economist gary<00:20:34.080> and<00:20:34.240> annabelle<00:20:34.640> denham<00:20:34.880> as<00:20:34.960> well

gary and annabelle denham as well

gary and annabelle denham as well director<00:20:35.520> of<00:20:35.600> communications<00:20:36.320> at<00:20:36.480> the<00:20:36.640> iea